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 Post subject: Pump action vs. semi/full auto shotguns.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:59 am 
Can someone please list the ways in which a pump action is superior to a semi or full auto shotgun? I know they are less prone to jam, lower maintanance and are much better for firing non lethal rounds and stuff, but is there anything else?


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 Post subject: Re: Pump action vs. semi/full auto shotguns.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:40 am 
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Cost. "Less prone to jam" could be debatable.


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 Post subject: Re: Pump action vs. semi/full auto shotguns.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:12 pm 
I agree with Grizz on the jamming. I’ve short-stroked a few pumps while shooting in awkward positions. I would add that a plus for a pump could be the use of non-lethal munitions. A plus for auto could be one handed use, not having to manually cycle the action.

Chuck


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 Post subject: Re: Pump action vs. semi/full auto shotguns.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 7:23 pm
Posts: 61
Location: Dixie
Ammo selection- pumps can eat anything from Dragons Breath to Buckshot to Slug....

Reliability in harsh conditions. The general reliability of pump v. auto is debatable, but in a swamp or in the sand, there is NO QUESTION.

Cost- Pump is cheaper- and, you can accuratley fire a pump just as fast as you can an autoloader.
The time it takes to recover from recoil is gracious plenty to quickly cycle another round.


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 Post subject: Re: Pump action vs. semi/full auto shotguns.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:02 pm 
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Vilsk wrote:
you can accuratley fire a pump just as fast as you can an autoloader.


Really? I've been using a pump to hunt ducks with all my life, but the few times I've tried an auto (hunting & 3-gun matches) the advantage of having a self-loader in this regard was obvious.


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 Post subject: Re: Pump action vs. semi/full auto shotguns.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 1:48 pm
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Location: Ohio
I think with practice a pump can be as fast as a semi. We were messing around one day at the farm and had two throwers setup just shooting for fun. I thought since we had two thrower set up it would be cool to try a triple. I stood between the throwers with one about 15 feet to either side. We threw one bird on the left thrower and a pair of the right thrower. You shot the slow bird that came off the double thrower first then the fast bird off the double and the hoped you could catch up to the single last. It was good as you went from right to left to get the three birds. If tried to go left to right the slow bird hit the ground before you could get to it.

None-the-less I started this triple attempt using my dads Browning 2000 and after a dozen or so attempts I manage to get a couple triples in a row. Well just for fun I grabbed my 3.5 inch BPS Stalker and gave it a try. I’m sure the practice with the semi-auto and the fact the semi was fixed Modified and my BPS had an IC choke in helped but after only a few attempt with the pump gun I had the triples down cold. Not that I got ever triple every time with either gun but shucking the pump seemed neither here nor there. I find the shuffling of most semi-auto more distracting then manually pumping a pump gun. I think with practice a pump gun can be as fast or faster then most semi and plenty fast for most situations.

As for jams, both actions can jam but if you have a shell stuck in the chamber a pump is easer to clear in an emergency as you can hold the forearm and slam the butt stock on the ground to clear the gun. With a semi auto you only have that small bolt handle to grab hold to extract a stuck shell.

mcb


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 Post subject: Re: Pump action vs. semi/full auto shotguns.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:29 am
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Get a Benelli M3 and have the best of both worlds 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Pump action vs. semi/full auto shotguns.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:24 pm 
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Location: Elberfeld Indiana
get a 1300 speed pump,those are almost like a automatic.they pump themselves back all u gotta do is push it fowards

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 Post subject: Re: Pump action vs. semi/full auto shotguns.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:08 pm 
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mcbirch wrote:
I think with practice a pump can be as fast as a semi.


I have seen this with my own eyes. The Rangemaster at the Prado range in Chino, CA, can work the pump like a machine gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Pump action vs. semi/full auto shotguns.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:32 am
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Location: Worcester, PA
Having competed and been a Range Officer on many shotgun speedshoot events, there is no way a pump is as fast as an autoloader. The difference is about .10 second per shot. You will not see this shooting clay birds, but shooting KD steel, it is obvious. I have been timed, during a match, with .15 sec shot breaks using a Benelli M1 on a swinging target. On a speedshoot with steel poppers, good auto shooters run about .25 seconds between targets, pumps, about .35.


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 Post subject: Re: Pump action vs. semi/full auto shotguns.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:56 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:08 am
Posts: 40
1) Ammo tolerance for the pump. A bigger deal than you might think. Few unmodified autos will shoot low recoil loads well (Benellis included, but one report on the M4 is encouraging here). These loads REALLY improve your shooting with no real world (vice ballistics tables) decrease in lethality, so should not be ignored. 2) Pure mechanical speed is not essential. Unless you are the sole human survivor of a zombie epidemic, decisions need to be made before you pull the trigger each and every time. Such as: is this a bad guy, is that a friendly, my partner, no threat, innocent caught in the middle, and so on. Tactical choices like ammo state, watching your flanks, where should I move for better cover, and most important - how the hell can I get out of here? On a range where everything downrange is a pepper popper an auto IS impressive but that's not as critical a factor as some others. 3) Dirt, mud, and neglect tolerance - pump. 4) Short stroking the gun is a real world worry but can be overcome by a little practice. Advantage auto. 4) Awkward position, prone, injured user functionality - auto. A note, prone is not used as much as you think for shooting back, few venues allow the clear sightline you need. Great for hiding though. 5) Cost - pump. Spend the money you save on training/ammo/practice, that's the most important factor of all. 6) Recoil - the auto is better here but not as much as you may have heard. See low recoil loads to help the pump. 7) Safety/utility issues - pump allows you to carry an empty chamber, yet be instantly functional. Switching loads and clearing malfunctions (EVERYTHING fails at some time) are simpler in a pump. 8) It's your choice; most importantly, be comfortable with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Pump action vs. semi/full auto shotguns.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:51 pm 
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when it comes to reliability, i want the 870, when it comes to speed, i want my 1100, not that the 1100 isnt reliable, it is extremely reliable, but a pump i can clear a jam easier if there ever is one, and i get that 1100 shooting like a full auto, ive pulled the trigger as fast as i could to see if i could make it jam and it didnt

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