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 Post subject: Gun Club & Fed 12S3 wads
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:58 pm 
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When I bought my used 600 Jr. press, the guy threw in about 400 Claybuster CB2118-12 clones of the Federal 12S3 wads. As I understand it, they are designed for straight-walled hulls.
I reload primarily Gun Club hulls (12 ga), and typically use the Claybuster clone of the WAA12, CB1118-12, for 1-1/8 oz. loads. As I understand it, these are tapered-wall hulls.

I'm using Clays powder, and was looking at the Hodgdon website, and see there are 3 recipes using the CB2118-12 wad in a GC hull. They call for a Remington 209 primer but not the Winchester 209 or other primers. (?)

The one that I'm primarily interested in is listed at 17.6 gr for 1145 fps @ 8600 LUP, and at some point potentially trying the 18.8 gr for 1200 fps @ 9000 LUP recipe. (I shoot skeet, and my Remington 1100 seems to prefer higher pressure loads to cycle when I shoot doubles.)

My question regards using a wad designed for a straight-walled hull in a tapered-wall hull. Being fairly frugal, I'd prefer to use up the wads I have rather than letting them sit around forever. No one at my club either shoots or reloads Federals, so I can't give them away. Does anyone have any experience using these wads in this type of hull, and if so, how do they work? Any problems/concerns?

Thx.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Club & Fed 12S3 wads
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:37 pm 
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I have no experience with this load but since it is a Hodgdon load - I consider the Claybuster wad a direct substitute - I would use it without hesitation from the standpoint of safety.

Whether the components fit well in the hull and it produces a good performing load is a matter of just loading some and shooting them. I'd sure as heck try to use up good components rather than throw them away.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Club & Fed 12S3 wads
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:48 pm 
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The Remington hull isn't all that much tapered compared to the original tapered WA CF hull. That wad will work fine in that hull.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Club & Fed 12S3 wads
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:30 am 
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Geeze, 3 Steve's in this thread, how bout that (what are the odds?)

Steve,

With it's thicker powder cup lip, the edge of the powder cup on the CB2118-12 will bind a bit higher up on the beginning of the hull taper making a bit more of an air pocket between the powder cup and the powder with 17.7 gn's of Clays than perhaps other wads probably would. However, I don't think that it would affect ballistics enough to be noticed.

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The upshot is, that in this configuration, it provides for pretty much the proper stack-height shot cup wise requiring little to no wad pressure:

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ParachuteAdams wrote:
They call for a Remington 209 primer but not the Winchester 209 or other primers. (?)

Do not substitute W209's (or any other primer) for the published 209P primer in this load. 18.8 gn's is a high pressure load which is already at the max, and is a lot of moxie for 1-1/8th oz, so going to a hotter primer (which anything other than a 209P is) will put you over pressure. I don't think you'd need anything near this kind of horsepower to cycle your 1100 (any auto for that matter), and certainly don't need this much soup for Skeet.

If you don't have 209P primers, then I'd mark these loads null and void.

You could also just scrape up 400 straight wall hulls from the field and load em with these CB2118's, - as there's more component options available in the straight wall recipes. Got any Rio's out there by chance ?


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Club & Fed 12S3 wads
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:18 am 
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That wad in WAACF and Blue Magic hulls produced the first decent 1 ounce target loads with unaltered plastic wads in those hulls. That was before Clays Powder so I have no idea what the powder charge should be with that powder. I used Red Dot and dropped one bushing from a standard 1 1/8 ounce charge. Don't panic, whatever the charge it was one published by Tom Roster in the SSR.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Club & Fed 12S3 wads
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:28 am 
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Thanks to all the Steves for your comments. :-)
I wasn't planning to substitute another primer, but was interested to hear the "whys and wherefores."
As far as other straight-walled hulls, I'm at a bit of a loss. Most of the other shooters at my club keep their hulls, and the ones who don't almost always shoot Gun Clubs, since they're typically the least expensive factory shells around here. Also, I don't think I'd recognize a Rio if I tripped over it.
The bottom line is that I'm planning to buy a few hundred Remington 209's and use up the wads I have. If I have any left over Rems, I'll use them up with other wads.

Thanks again-

Steve #1


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Club & Fed 12S3 wads
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:41 am 
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You may wanna come up with a backup plan and check your supplier. Rem 209 are slim pickins up here in the north east due to a huge jump in cost. It may be something just up my way, but I wouldnt be suprised to see it all over the place soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Club & Fed 12S3 wads
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:14 pm 
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[quote="40over9"]You may wanna come up with a backup plan and check your supplier. Rem 209 are slim pickins up here in the north east due to a huge jump in cost. It may be something just up my way, but I wouldnt be suprised to see it all over the place soon.

I called Bass Pro in Foxboro (right next to Gillette Stadium, for any of you football fans), and they have them in stock. I just got back, and bought 400 to cover the wads I have. They aren't cheap at Bass Pro, but I had a $10 rewards credit, so it worked out ok.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Club & Fed 12S3 wads
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:30 pm 
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Some time back I did use up some 12S3 CB clones I had in stock just to get rid of them.

I used a Remington Hull, (Any 12 ga. Rem. hull will work), a W-209 Primer, 17.3 grs. Clays, the 12S3 clone wad and 1 oz. shot. Worked just fine and performed as well as any other 1 oz. load.

The use of a 12S0 wad in a 7/8 oz. load is a listed load, and it just made sense that the 12S3 would work in a 1 oz. load, and it did so quite nicely.

DLM

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Club & Fed 12S3 wads
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:01 pm 
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D L Marcum wrote:
Some time back I did use up some 12S3 CB clones I had in stock just to get rid of them.

I used a Remington Hull, (Any 12 ga. Rem. hull will work), a W-209 Primer, 17.3 grs. Clays, the 12S3 clone wad and 1 oz. shot. Worked just fine and performed as well as any other 1 oz. load.

The use of a 12S0 wad in a 7/8 oz. load is a listed load, and it just made sense that the 12S3 would work in a 1 oz. load, and it did so quite nicely.

DLM

Yes, I totally agree! I think using them up in 1-oz instead of 1-1/8th oz would be much better (as I've done it myself).


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Club & Fed 12S3 wads
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:56 pm 
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The Remington Uni-body SP (gun club) is a relatively straight hull. Not as straight as either of the federals, but straighter than the remington Premier and alot straighter than Winchester. The time I've sused 12S0 & 12S3s in Gun Club hulls they've done fine. Not quite as well as they do in Federal hulls, but more than acceptable.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun Club & Fed 12S3 wads
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:00 pm 
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Just a quick follow-up. I loaded a couple of boxes using GC hulls, Rem 209 primers, and the Fed 12S3 clone wads, and shot them today. They worked just fine.

Thanks to everyone for your help.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Club & Fed 12S3 wads
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:41 am 
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How much powder did you use, and if you loaded 17.6 gn's like you were originally were going to start out with, did it cycle your 1100 Ok ?


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 Post subject: Re: Gun Club & Fed 12S3 wads
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:51 am 
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Republican wrote:
How much powder did you use, and if you loaded 17.6 gn's like you were originally were going to start out with, did it cycle your 1100 Ok ?


The drops averaged out around 17.4 using a Mec 600 Jr with a #30 bushing. The gun cycled every time. Now if I could only arrange for the clays to break every time prior to hitting the ground............ :D


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