CalendarCalendar   Photos  * FAQ
It is currently Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:58 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:24 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:13 pm
Posts: 8
Alright guys, I know that some of you guys on here are very knowledgeable about shotguns so I have a question. What is the deal with the newer 870's? I have owned several older model 870's and never had any trouble out of them. I recently bought a couple of new ones and have noticed that they aren't as reliable nor is the fit and finish as solid as the older ones. Now, I know the Remington was bought by the Freedom Group but what is the deal?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:55 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:22 am
Posts: 1610
Location: Bay Area, California
If you buy the Wingmaster model you will be getting something pretty close to the old 870 Wingmasters. Did you buy the Express model? Bad idea in my experience. The Express shotguns are a crap shoot. Sometimes they work o.k. and sometimes they fail right out of the box. In the last couple of years I have not yet seen an Express model that did NOT have to go back for warranty service.

_________________
"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more often likely to be foolish than sensible."

Bertrand Russell


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:50 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:59 pm
Posts: 2269
Location: Boston, Mass.
I'd venture to say that most new 870 Express owners are satisfied. However, there are some who are complaining about sticky chambers. That is the main problem I'm hearing about. I have sold 20 870's over the last month or so, and I haven't had any calls back about them. I personally know 3 new owners, and they haven't had issues.

I have an 870 that is about 8 years old. It has been flawless. When I compare the new ones, they feel a little "different" probably due to my comfort with the other, yet they are both expresses.

Wingmasters are still flawless.

_________________
'Tis easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience- Julius Caesar

1911, Remington, and Beretta Enthusiast


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:40 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:35 pm
Posts: 1
I have bought 2 new Remington 870 Express models in the past month, and my brother had one gifted to him at Christmas. My two are the Express Super Mag camo, and the Express synthetic 7 round. My brother had an Express 870 wood model. All 3 have the extraction/chamber issues, and the camo on my super mag (just got it 5 days ago) has begun to flake off. All three 870's were bought about the same time, and we took them out last weekend to fire them for the first time. After the initial extraction problems we cleaned/lubricated each one and still had the same problem. Then I noticed the camo was flaking off my super mag. Remington agreed to send me a new barrel but it is on backorder. I hope to see it before Christmas of 2012.

I always thought that the Remington 870 Express was an excellent choice for a pump shotgun, but I guess wanting a brand new shotgun to run right out of the box is too much to ask these days.

As soon as my new barrel arrives I am selling both my 870's and really won't recommend the Express model again. I'd splurge for a better model, or look into the Benelli Nova/Mossberg 500 series. As one of the poster above me said, the Express models are a crap shoot, but in my case 3 out of 3 had problems....so you can decide.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:03 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 2593
Location: Kansas
I heard about this process, and I haven't seen it first hand, but it might have some merit. I was told that a new owner of an Express was not satisfied with how the stiff and sticky action worked on his new gun, so he took it apart and coated each moving piece with extra fine valve grinding compound and then put it back together and worked the crap out of it while applying oil where needed. After a few minutes of this, took the gun completely apart again and washed every part in kerosene, blew dry and then reassembled and oiled. The result is supposed to be stunning; very smooth and slick action. Maybe???

_________________
"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:26 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:13 am
Posts: 13
as much as new shotguns cost, you shouldnt have to do anything to it .. i call it poor quality control..i have an older 1st addition 1187 sp in treebark camo.. now this gun here runs like a sewing machine.. its had the piss shot out of it over the years with only minor hookups from lack of cleaning.. i went through it at the begining of duck season.. no issues at all.. from what i understand remingtons from mid to late 90's or later arent as good as the older ones.. we have older mint 1100 magnums in the family from waay back in the day .. they feel soo much more solid then the new stuff


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:44 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:24 pm
Posts: 5841
Location: NE Ohio
Since the OP said:
Quote:
I recently bought a couple of new ones and have noticed that they aren't as reliable nor is the fit and finish as solid as the older ones.
Read more: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=278915#ixzz1jHIiRAwF


I really suspect he's comparing an older Wingmaster to a new Express.

New 870 Wingmaster's look to me to have as nice, if not nicer wood grain, and "fit and finish" as older ones. Express's obviously are what they are. A very rough gun made to the same basic design as a Wingmaster, but definitely not the same gun.

My advice would be not to buy an Express for any reason unless that's all that your budget allows.

I'd buy any of these pumps new however:

Ithaca M37
Remington Wingmaster
Browning BPS
Winchester SXP
Benelli Nova

I just saw today on one of the auction sites, a new BPS 12 gauge for under $450. IT would be crazy to by an Express if you could get a BPS for that amount of coin, even if you had to really budget hard for a month.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:31 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:37 pm
Posts: 631
Location: My House In New Jersey
:)
I have 2 - 870 Wingmasters and love them, bought new used alot no problem at all.
I have shot and handled the 870 express. A friend of mine wanted me to change the split forearm on it for him and test it.
I take the Wingmaster any day.
To me it was like compairing a Lincoln Town Car to a Toyota Corolla.
Fred

_________________
Fred W. Steinacker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:09 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:06 am
Posts: 6945
Location: Tucson Az
Fred, My BIL had a Corolla, at least it worked! :wink:

I would place the new stuff in the fit and finsh of a tired YUGO! :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

_________________
Jim,
Patriotism: Supporting your Country ALL THE TIME;
and your government when it deserves it - MARK TWAIN



follow this link to join the forum's bonus Membership
http://www.shotgunworld.com/memberships.htm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:18 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:59 pm
Posts: 2269
Location: Boston, Mass.
The Newer 870 Wingmasters haven't slipped a bit, that is for certain.

_________________
'Tis easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience- Julius Caesar

1911, Remington, and Beretta Enthusiast


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:38 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:57 pm
Posts: 545
Location: Minnesota
I have had the same problem with two new 12 gauge 870 Express barrels. The chambers were undersized and rough. In fact the total length of the inside of the barrels awere poorly finished. I solved the problem (with both barrels) by honing the chambers with a 3/4" wheel cylinder hone, and then polishing them with oil soaked steel wool wrapped around a brass cleaning brush. To smooth the action, I held the action release and pumped it about 200 times.

I don't mind the cheaper outside finish of the 870 Express, but the buyer shouldn't have to finish the inside of the chamber on a new gun.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:08 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 8:20 pm
Posts: 10238
Location: Evangeline, Louisiana
There was a big argument on another board over whether it was dumb to spend more for a Wingmaster than an Express. You pays your money and makes your choice. Not spending the money and expecting something better that what is ain't smart. Remington has had some rough chamber issues, but I have not heard of anyone who wasn't taken care of by Remington if they got in touch with them with a problem. I have also seen Mossbergs, Novas, and even a BPS being beat on the ground with the new cheap shells. I do not believe Remington is targeting knowledgeable shooters with the Express, they are competing at the bottom of the scale however they can. I have about as much sympathy for anyone who buys an Express as i do for those who want the best $300 O/U. If you can do a search and find this forum, you can do a search and see what is what. And make no mistake, 99% of them are going to buy cheap no matter what advice they get. If that's all you can afford, I've been there, but I didn't try to find people to tell me how smart I was when i bought mixed set used tires. If I could stand flat black and/or plastic guns and I needed a beater, I would have no problem with an Express, but I am confident I could get it running fine with 99.99% of the possible problems.

_________________
What could have happened... did.
I do not trust Remington's dating service accuracy. If they were Match.com, you could end up with Nancy Pelosi.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:11 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:57 am
Posts: 20661
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
I hope Remington addresses this issue. It is far to prevalent to be just an anomaly.

I have a relatively new 870 Wingmaster, made in 2007, and it is as smooth and reliable as any I've ever seen. The Express is a roughly made cousin. I agree with Mike in that the user shouldn't have to polish anything. The action not being smooth isn't an issue as far as I'm concerned because it will smooth out over time. The chamber is another thing altogether.

_________________
Remember, you can post here because they died over there.

“Endeavor to clear your mind of can't.” - Francis P. Church

Image

Col 4:6
Hate the ads? Become a Bonus Member, click here.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:23 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 627
Location: Miami
I got to see the rough chamber issue with the Express for the 1st time the other day. Someone got a new one for Christmas and was trying it out at the range. It wouldn't extract the shell . Given that I'm new to 870s and no one else there had one, we couldn't help the guy out. I just told him the chamber may need to be polished but didn't know what it involved. I couldn't be happier with my old T.B. however and will be pointing new people interested in buying an 870 on a tight budget toward a used Wingmaster over the Express. From what I've seen at the auction sites used Wingmasters with tubes are going at about the same price as a new Express.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:53 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:09 pm
Posts: 249
Older 870s or Wingmaster is better than the new Express. Two guys I work with bought brand new out of the box express for their kids to shoot trap shoots... and both shotguns had shell ejection problems at the shoots. One of them tried to spray silicon in the action to make it work and got some spray on the stock and made the finish smear...looks like crap. One Police officer I hunt with got one of those Remington riot type shotguns with the fancy finish on his and he had problems also.

Remington did step up to the plate and send two new barrels to my buddies and the officer sent his in to Remington after the replacement barrel did not work....everyone is happy now...just have to be careful.

Most of the problems are on the 12g models...but the 870 Express 20g youth model I bought for my daughter had problems at the same event...so she took my BPS 20g and finished the shoot and does not want to use the express at all. I am going to try some different shells and see what happens.

Signalman


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:24 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:13 pm
Posts: 8
The problem does seem to be worse using federal and Winchester trap loads. But all that aside the newer 870's aren't fitted as good as the older ones either. The receivers look like they were carved out of stone and the barrels dont seem to have the attention to detail either.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:33 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:01 am
Posts: 85
Virginian wrote:
I have also seen Mossbergs, Novas, and even a BPS being beat on the ground with the new cheap shells.


This is true about the BPS. I just replaced the action bar assembly on mine (thank you Brownells for stocking this part) after it broke last week. I am convinced it broke due to 2 boxes of cheap shells I ran through it a couple months ago. To be fair the gun is old and when I bought it even cheap shells had brass bases and they worked fine. Its the non brass bases in the current cheap shells that stick. Love my BPS otherwise.

I bought my daughter an 870 Express. We like it because it has a really short stock and is light, but it is what it is, a cheap gun. This gun has an annoying habit. My daughter turns the gun so the ejection port faces up, pulls the slide back and if she doesn't do it very forcefully, the spent hull flips around and goes back in the gun to where front faces back and back faces front. I then have to pry the shell out with my fingers. No chamber sticking issues though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:35 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 16617
Location: Missouri
I've owned too many 870 Wingmasters to remember the exact number, and have several right this minute. All guns, Remington included, were polished and finished out to a higher standard of care years ago. I've helped with my kid's FFA trap team for several years now, and I've seen more Mossberg 500's and Remington 870 Express shotguns that I could imagine. Here's what I've noticed:

Over and unders and side by sides and autoloaders don't get "sticky chambers" to the point where shells don't extract. Only pumps get shut down by "sticky chambers". Surely the doubles and the autos have sticky chambers too, but their extraction is so much more positive that you don't notice it. They say that extraction problems cause extractors to break on doubles and autos,,,,but I don't believe I've ever seen one break on anything.

Remington 870 Express chambers are the worst offenders. But they don't all do it. Most are cured by simply polishing the chamber with a short section of cleaning rod chucked up to an electric drill with a bore brush and some Frontier polishing steel wool wound around it.

Alumium headed cheap Winchester shells just suck. But a modern shotgun should gobble up any and all brand new shells on the market without "sticking". Period. Remington needs to very quickly address this problem and advertise they have fixed it.

I have looked down the chambers of dozens of 870 Express shotguns. If anything, the new Expresses have chambers right straight from the factory polished even better than the older guns. The new ones shine like polished mirrors. But still they'll sometimes get "sticky". I think the problem is more with chamber dimensions than poor finishing. The older shotguns don't ever stick with anything.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:23 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:34 am
Posts: 2181
Location: North Central, Washington
Remington makes the Express model for a reason. People wanting cheap guns keep buying them. They never should have called the express an 870. They did because of the name recognition and people keep buying them thinking they are getting what the 870 was.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old Remington 870 vs new
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 627
Location: Miami
You have to give Remington some credit for at least trying to compete in the low cost gun market. New Wingmasters are pricey,costing as much as some autoloaders.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], carolinaclayguy, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Jager1, jcroelandt, joecor, joeninety, Josh R, Majestic-12 [Bot], perazzimx8l, roger miller, sts90, talbtimber, targetcrusher1, Yahoo [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group     -  DMCA Notice