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 Post subject: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Legal?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:02 pm
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Hi all...are these folding stocks legal to own? They are stamped "Law Enforcement Only" as they were originally for LEOs but are mere citizens allowed to own them? I've found several threads saying it's OK...but if a cop/AG looks at it I'm sure they'll have their own interpretation.

They come up for sale every once in a while on gunbroker...

Anyone know the history/laws here?




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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:48 pm 
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Perfectly legal as far as Federal law,but Some nanny states may have stupid laws forbidding it.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:42 pm 
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As far as I know even back then it was basically the same as firearms manufacturers slaping law enforcement only of the side of ammo boxes.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:24 pm
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Location: NE Ohio
"legal" and fun/easy to shoot are two different things.

All of the cops I know, and a few FBI agents, all use traditional wood stocked Remington 8970's and similar shotguns. There is a reason for that.

Some true tactical LEO's will use the folding stocks, but I think if you are looking for home defense you would be wise to try one before you spend any money on it, and then decide "do I like this? Does it really give me any advantage in my home?"


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:04 pm 
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VTHokiesDuckHunter wrote:
"legal" and fun/easy to shoot are two different things.

All of the cops I know, and a few FBI agents, all use traditional wood stocked Remington 8970's and similar shotguns. There is a reason for that.

Some true tactical LEO's will use the folding stocks, but I think if you are looking for home defense you would be wise to try one before you spend any money on it, and then decide "do I like this? Does it really give me any advantage in my home?"


This is very true....
I myself don't like pistol grips on shotguns... Only on this one because i dug this out of the junk in the shop.... The things i find... like I made a Swedish Mauser from part... I had to buy a trigger guard and a safety that was all.. lol

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:02 pm
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Banshee wrote:
Perfectly legal as far as Federal law,but Some nanny states may have stupid laws forbidding it.


Well I live in Utah so I'm not worried about the nanny state issue...

Any chance you/anybody else know the specific federal laws covering folding stocks?

Anyone know what parts of Utah code refer to this stuff?


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:32 pm 
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Location: NE Ohio
cv0lv0g0 wrote:
VTHokiesDuckHunter wrote:
"legal" and fun/easy to shoot are two different things.

All of the cops I know, and a few FBI agents, all use traditional wood stocked Remington 8970's and similar shotguns. There is a reason for that.

Some true tactical LEO's will use the folding stocks, but I think if you are looking for home defense you would be wise to try one before you spend any money on it, and then decide "do I like this? Does it really give me any advantage in my home?"


This is very true....
I myself don't like pistol grips on shotguns... Only on this one because i dug this out of the junk in the shop.... The things i find... like I made a Swedish Mauser from part... I had to buy a trigger guard and a safety that was all.. lol


cv:

you sound like my kind of guy. Nice job on that Mauser! I grew up not far from you (Scott Depot) and always shot in "Rifle Country" and still do most of my deer hunting in WV and VA on farms different relatives own, where you can by God shoot rifles! Not like here in Ohio where I have come to live and work- slug guns only unfortunately.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:35 am
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Location: Orlando, FL
I have had two over the years and sold them both off because they HURT when I shot the gun. As a cop I have never heard of a law in the several jurisdictions I have worked that limited the public to standard stocks only. I am aware of the National Firearms Act (NFA) restrictions on barrel length and overall length. I am also aware that the expired Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) had restrictions on folding stocks for semi automatic shotguns but that model is exclusively for the 870. It would take some creative engineering to get it to work on most semi-autos. Even so the AWB is expired.

Federal law on the subject can be found at Title 18 United States Code (USC) I believe the firearms parts start around 900 or so. The 18USC922 for example list the parts counts necessary to keep a weapon as US Compliant.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:59 am 
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There are no laws forbidding that stock from regular folks (outside of a few states on the east coast, and depending on mag length, IIRC).

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:16 pm
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Location: Stone Mountain Ga.
Can't speak to the legality issue, but do agree with one of the previous posts about trying it out before purchasing. I picked up a Choate top folder many years ago, and never really cared for it. Hard to explain, but it never felt like part of the weapon but more like an extension on the end. To me the 12 lop is the best of both worlds, solid and compact and much better control.
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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:46 pm 
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We had those stocks on our 'Special Weapon' 870s in the AF. The preferred method of shooting them was with the stock folded... the damned things hurt too much to shoot with them deployed. I would highly recommend not getting one.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:45 pm 
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Try your folding stock out in MI after January 2012, measure under 30" folded ( I think" ) then pack your bags... I've heard there is one other state that feels like MI in that they can wipe their a$$ with our constitution and strip away our constitutional rights like we live in Communist China. I'm in FL so I've not fact checked this accurately but anyone going with a folder should check Fed/state and City regs or face prison/jail time which is a sin! Most of the US has no worries with a folder. Important to note I have a very strong feeling whoever is elected that the assault weapons ban will be back shortly after this election. Time to de sporterize and tacticool your weapons asap! IMO...

~ The Dirty One ~


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:16 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:53 am 
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Dirtyeddie wrote:
Try your folding stock out in MI after January 2012, measure under 30" folded ( I think" ) then pack your bags... I've heard there is one other state that feels like MI in that they can wipe their a$$ with our constitution and strip away our constitutional rights like we live in Communist China. I'm in FL so I've not fact checked this accurately but anyone going with a folder should check Fed/state and City regs or face prison/jail time which is a sin! Most of the US has no worries with a folder. Important to note I have a very strong feeling whoever is elected that the assault weapons ban will be back shortly after this election. Time to de sporterize and tacticool your weapons asap! IMO...

~ The Dirty One ~



WHAT?

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:35 am
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Location: Orlando, FL
If I recall correctly MI does have a statute requiring all firearms under 30 inches in length must be "safety checked" by the local police and the pertinent information such as what it is, serial number and caliber have to be provided. Defacto handgun registration as well as some carbines and short but not NFA shotguns.

I also have been told by my local FFL here in FL that shotguns with Pistol grip only stocks have to wait the required 3 business days to pickup as if they were handguns while a traditional stock can leave the store as soon as the instant check is done.

The vagaries of state law. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:53 pm
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FotoTomas wrote:

I also have been told by my local FFL here in FL that shotguns with Pistol grip only stocks have to wait the required 3 business days to pickup as if they were handguns while a traditional stock can leave the store as soon as the instant check is done.

The vagaries of state law. :(


False. Waiting periods differ by county in FL (unless you have a CCW), but a pistol grip on a shotgun is still a shotgun.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... -purchases


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:02 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:35 am
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Location: Orlando, FL
870Mike wrote:
FotoTomas wrote:

I also have been told by my local FFL here in FL that shotguns with Pistol grip only stocks have to wait the required 3 business days to pickup as if they were handguns while a traditional stock can leave the store as soon as the instant check is done.

The vagaries of state law. :(


False. Waiting periods differ by county in FL (unless you have a CCW), but a pistol grip on a shotgun is still a shotgun.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... -purchases


While a shotgun is still a shotgun and I agree the law you quoted has no effect on waiting periods, My local FFL in Seminole County told me in the past that they are required to hold PGO shotguns for the three business days the state law requires for pistols. I will try to reconfirm and get a reference as to local or non local requirements. I was under the understanding that FL law prohibits local gun law rules under a state exemption. More research do I must! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:53 pm
Posts: 54
FotoTomas wrote:
I was under the understanding that FL law prohibits local gun law rules under a state exemption. More research do I must! :)


True:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... force-guns


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:35 am
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Location: Orlando, FL
I called three local gun dealers in Orlando and they all agreed that a Pistol Grip Only (PGO) shotgun was classified as "other" and limited to people over 21 as if it was a pistol. The last one pointed me towards the latest 4473

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

On page 5 of the instruction about question 18 it describes how the PGO is NOT a rifle or shotgun and is limited to 21 years of age or older and Florida law indicates if it is NOT a rifle or shotgun by definition then it must fall under the pistol waiting period. Same for receivers and frames not yet assembled.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 "Law Enforcement Only" Folding stock - Leg
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:53 pm
Posts: 54
Hmm...never heard/saw that one before. Weird.




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