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 Post subject: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:35 am
Posts: 6
Location: PA
I'm interested in loading 12-gauge slugs for rifled barrels. I was hoping there would be heavy copper-plated lead-core slugs on the market, but so far I can only find light sabot slugs. (My understanding is that Foster and Brenneke slugs don't shoot well through rifling and foul it terribly.)

Is there are reason only sabot bullets are sold for rifled shotguns? E.g., is typical rifling at large gauges not precise enough to directly engrave bullets?

(I did see the recent thread on solid brass slugs, but I assume those are both custom and expensive.)


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:28 pm
Posts: 921
Location: Brinton, MI
Brenekke OKs work fine in rifled for me.
Full bore slugs do engrave rifling fine...............................
It is just no one is making them, since Dixie quite selling them for
reloading. Most figure it is easier to use sabots or wadcups.
Greg on here has 16ga size ones for 12ga wad cups
that are a nice. BPI sell a full bore jkt one with aluminum core,
and a bunch of others, Slugs R Us sell 12ga SPW full bore deals
which are in plastic sheath.Just got to read al lthe posts here.Ed


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:48 pm
Posts: 646
There are plenty of Full bore slugs that can fill your need. You don't need Copper plating or jackets at shotun velocity. It just adds to the cost. A properly fitted and lubed Full bore cast slug will not lead, and foul out the barrel. I have molds for many full bore designs. I also have Molds for .660" slugs that fit in wads to load. They eliminate the need for a proper fit, and do not foul out the barrrel. They also can reduce recoil, by allowing lighter slugs to be fired. PM me if you need any help in this area. I will try and help.
Greg
AKA 12 Bore


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:50 pm 
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Try WWW.starsandstripesammo.com thats there web site. They have solid copper, not lead filled. Thewy will also make anything you want.. Good shooting.

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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:48 pm
Posts: 646
Stars and Stripes doesn't resally have anything new. I do have the Ltahe turned Solid copper 773gr ones for sale. The price is reasonable for my current supply. Once I have to remake some, the price increase on Copper will apply. I am still about half the cost on some Lathe tuned brass ones from a big Company.
PM me for details.
Greg
AKA 12 Bore


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:53 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Southern Illinois
A couple of years ago, I was in the same place you now are in that I wanted to load my own slugs. I started with the Lee Key Drive for my rifled H&R USH 12 gauge. I was able to get 3" groups at 50 yards with it and it did a great job in taking deer with either 2 3/4 or 3" shells. I then tried the Lyman 525 grain hour glass-shaped sabot only because I wanted to see if the groups would improve; however, I got the same 3" groups at 50 yards and, again, the Lyman did a great job in taking deer. Out of curiosity and from reading several posts on this and other websites, I decided to try a roundball. I already had a .690 mold from my muzzleloading interests and casts some fairly pure lead roundballs with it. To my surprise, at 50 yards it shot 1" groups and, again, did a great job in taking deer. Interestingly the Lee, Lyman, and roundball all shot to the same point of aim at 50 yards. I used new Fiocchi hulls, Herco powder, and Federal S3 wads for all of my loads with a .125 20 gauge hard card below the slug/ball in the S3 wad. My experience showed that the roundball is less destructive than the Lee or Lyman on deer; however, with the roundball be sure to follow up all shots since deer don't always react to being hit.


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:48 pm
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Full bore slugs like the Dixie Terminator, and similar ones such as mine generally shoot well. They do not seem to be as sensitive to load changes, as the Lyman 525 and others.
I tried the Rapine 735600 years ago, and it worked quite well, but was tempermental.
The Full bore 770gr truncated cone slug that I have with the .500" Metplat shoots well, and kills even better. I have not been able to recover a slug yet.
It does make a bit of a mess, but nothing like the fragmenting bullets, or the Sabots.
The Meat is fine almost up to the Hole. The lower velocity helps to prevent the Bloodshot Meat. I generally shoot them at 1100-1200 FPS for practice, and 1400FPS for hunting. They will drop more than some other slugs, but are effective beyond 100 yards.
You can use IMR 4759 or IMR 4227 with them. Blue Dot is a bit too fast, as is 4756.
Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:03 am
Posts: 215
Another good powder for full barrel diameter slugs in rifled barrel --- is Alliant STEEL pwder --- a little slower then Blue Dot and seems to like heavyer weight slugs --- which full barrel diameter slugs cast from lead that dont have hollow point or bottom tend to be

Just remember --- you HAVE to use magnum primers with it --- no exceptions --- that be FED-209-A or CCI-209-M for primers that are available off shelf for reloaders --- there are other magnum primers besides those two --- but usually not available to buy to reload --- usually only found in new primed hulls


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:48 pm
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Yes you can use Alliant Steel, but it son't my favorite. The Muzzle blast with some slugs can be blinding. I avoid it unless absolutely needed. I prefer the single base powders for the predictable burn rate, and minimal Flash. My Favorite powder is not available to the Public, but it the best IMHO Primex 513. James Gates uses it exclusively in his loads. It burns well, ignites easily, and is forgiving of payload range. I have used it from 265grains up to 965 grains. Neither one had any significant Flash.
Greg
AKA 12 Bore


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:35 am
Posts: 6
Location: PA
Thank you all for the info so far.

One thing I wasn't expecting: Is 2-6MOA from a rifled barrel considered good accuracy? I recall getting that from a smooth-bore with Brenneke slugs. I was assuming that any modern rifled 12-gauge barrel would be capable of 1MOA out to 100 yards. Do I need to adjust my expectations of shotguns?


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:31 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:34 pm
Posts: 290
Location: ohio
reloadersauction.com


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:43 am
Posts: 107
I think anything under 2 MOA is decent. Mine will do 1.5 MOA pretty regular with Lightfields. I'm still working on a load for solids.


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:03 am
Posts: 215
You mention the Primex 513 that Dixie use --- at one time on another forum Dixie mention that "Lil'Gun" is very close to being same powder and only slightly different --- I haven't tried it myself though

You ever try it Greg? --- (that be Lil'Gun powder for slugs)

I personally dont mind the big boom and flash of Steel powder --- I kind of like it infact --- big guns are supposed to make a big load boom and have long flame come out end of barrel --- I mainly use slug gun as toy though not as much hunting --- mainly use my big bore handguns for hunting in areas where I cant use rifle and must use either shotgun or handgun or muzzle stuffer


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:57 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:43 am
Posts: 107
Have you ever lubed full bore solids with Castrol Stick Wax or a similar product? Do you think it will work? Works great for sizing jacketed and solid rifle bullets.


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:15 pm 
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No --- have never used Castrol Stick Wax --- pulled a product description and use off their sight and the MSDS though --- sounds a lot like a thicker stiffer version of what most cast lead boolit lube is from the MSDS specs --- hydrocarbon (oil) blend suspended in microcrystaline wax blend

See no reason it wouldnt work --- but as I said I never use it myself --- think I have used something similar though --- a generic product called "cutting wax" or something along those lines that is also a thick wax like cutting lubricant for machining and cutting metal --- cutting fluid (liquid not wax) normally used for most applications instead though but for some the wax is better then the fluid --- but that machine tool work not boolit lube application

I "pan lube" my full bore slugs in a mix of bees wax and Crisco --- you just vary how much bees wax to how much Crisco to make it thicker and harder (more bees wax less Crisco) or softer (less bees wax more Crisco) --- its a very common receipe for black powder lube but it works just fine for me with smokeless big gauge bore guns --- mainly 12 bore guns but also sometimes in smaller 20 bore and bigger 10 and 8 bore as well --- no problems so far


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:48 pm
Posts: 646
Th reason I object to Steel, is that followup HSots are impossible if you cannot see. I have fired the loads in near dark at first light, and before sunset. If you shoot, you will not be able to see you sights again for a few seconds. That Scenario is just unacceptable to me. I need the ability to see my Target. Primex is Flash suppressed with powder additives. I do not know if Lil Gun is Flash Suppressed. You could develop loads using Lil Gun, but I have not done it yet. I have the powder, but not the free time.
Greg
AKA 12 Bore


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:07 pm
Posts: 7
Hello,
I also am interested in hand loading some full bore slugs, but I am unable to find SAFE published tested loading data. Can anyone direct me to a source of loads for this info? Lyman, Lee, Hodgdon, BP, etc., don't list heavy weight slug loading data. I am looking at obtaining a mold from Accurate Molds http://www.accuratemolds.com/ for a .729" 700 grain slug, but without load tested data it would seem worthless. I am not familiar enough with the process of developing my own loads to feel comfortable experimenting to see what happens. Any ideas of a source of information?


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 Post subject: Re: Full bore slugs
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:36 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:48 pm
Posts: 646
Hairy Yoes, don't bother looking, because the big Companies do not have any real heavy loading data. At one point BPI had one stupid load for the Lyman 730gr Minie ball in a Wad. It was a real Joke, as you couldn't get a decent crimp, and the Teflon wraps were torn in the Forcing Cone. I have been workin on the Heavy loads for probably 15 years.
I called The Ballisticans at BPI, and they simply told me that I couldn't do it.

My loads are tested by Tom Armbrust at Ballistic Research, ans maintain SAAMI Specification Chamber pressure. Powders suited to this application are: IMR 4759, IMR 4227, Vihtavuori N110, and possibly VV N 350. I plan on developing loads for Lil Gun, and VV 350, but I can't seem to get around to it. There is a conversion for Lilgun, but I have to dig it up. Regular shotgun powders are just too fast. For example IMR 4756 is great in 1 5/8 oz loads, but generates way too much pressure with 1 3/4oz. I've pushed 1043gr slugs at up to 1174 FPS using a load of IMR 4227, and it work well. You will notice the Recoil.
Greg
AKA 12 Bore


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