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 Post subject: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:03 pm 
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What's you're opinion on Recoil operated vs. Gas operated? and why?
i'm not sure what mine is yet i have a Remington 1100 and a Stoeger 2000 coming soon.

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Browning BPS, 12 gauge.
Remington 1100, 12 gauge
Remington 1100, 20 gauge
Stoeger 2000, 12 gauge
Springfield 67f, 20 gauge
Ithaca model 100, 20 gauge
H&R single shot, 12 gauge
H&R single shot, .410


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Location: Southwest Georgia, USA
The 1100 is gas operated and the Stoeger is inertia operated.


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 Post subject: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:31 pm
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If you REALLY like cleaning guns than gas operated is for you :)


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:26 pm 
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albanygun wrote:
The 1100 is gas operated and the Stoeger is inertia operated.

i know that but i didnt state that im not sure which i like better (recoil operated vs gas.)

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Browning BPS, 12 gauge.
Remington 1100, 12 gauge
Remington 1100, 20 gauge
Stoeger 2000, 12 gauge
Springfield 67f, 20 gauge
Ithaca model 100, 20 gauge
H&R single shot, 12 gauge
H&R single shot, .410


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:36 pm 
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See if this link helps any.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103338&start=20


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:39 am
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Worc wrote:
See if this link helps any.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103338&start=20

Thanks!

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Browning BPS, 12 gauge.
Remington 1100, 12 gauge
Remington 1100, 20 gauge
Stoeger 2000, 12 gauge
Springfield 67f, 20 gauge
Ithaca model 100, 20 gauge
H&R single shot, 12 gauge
H&R single shot, .410


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:18 am 
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This question will probably draw strong opinions from both sides. I own both and have no clear favorite. Gas guns are dirtier and have a more involved cleaning ritual. They are also noticeably softer shooting, especially with the heavier loads. Recoil guns generally will handle a wider range of loads while maintaining functional reliability. I believe that if one were clearly superior to the other, it would dominate the market and you'd see the other fade into obscurity. The first successful (hugely successful) automatic was the Browning Auto-5 and it was a recoil-op gun. It was what is known as a long recoil action and is considerably different from what we see today in recoil operated guns, but recoil operated none the less. Truthfully, the only thing it has in common with today's recoil-op guns is that its NOT gas. Along about the late 40's-early 50's Remington got big into autos and they were all gas-op guns. From that point on, gas guns dominated the marketplace until Benelli got a foothold in the U.S. Now the pendulum seems to be swinging back. As a matter of fact, Browning has just re-introduced the Auto-5 but it has a modern rotating bolt recoil mechanism very similar to Benelli. In a nutshell, modern rotary bolt recoil operated guns are mechanically simpler, and therefore arguably more reliable.They're usually a bit lighter also. Gas guns are softer shooting.

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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:16 pm
Posts: 4385
The "why" part will be best realized as soon as you shoot that Stoeger.


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:33 am 
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Location: North Dakota
I own both a Stoeger 2000 and an 1100. I like them both, although they are as different as can be. The 2000 is synthetic stocked and is my foul weather, knock around gun. You will want a Limbsaver recoil pad for it. They sell a pre-fit model that screws right on. It makes recoil a non-issue. The 1100 is heavier and has much lighter felt recoil. They have both been flawless performers for me-not one malfunction of any kind. {hs#


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 Post subject: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:43 am 
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The only true advantage of an auto is less recoil than a pump, O/U, or SxS, period.

The inconvenience for that is hulls flying everywhere, which either bounce off your trap squad mate, or have to be picked up off the ground if you are a reloader or don't want to wear out your welcome with the landowner who lets you hunt there. Hopefully, at least, you're not a litterbug.

So why put up with that inconvenience, then get most of the recoil of a pump, O/U, etc, which is what you'll get with a recoil operated gun?

BTW, "inertia" is just a BS marketing euphemism for "recoil." Apparently they think it fools some people, and I think they are correct.

The cleaning complaints are overrated, unless one is opposed to fiddling with their guns and prefers to put them away dirty.

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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:54 am 
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If all you ever do is shoot at clay targets, that's true.

Personally, I'd buy one good gun, either gas or inertia, instead of an 1100 and a Stoeger.

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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:09 pm 
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Location: NE Ohio
nody wrote:
The only true advantage of an auto is less recoil than a pump, O/U, or SxS, period.


Quite a statement.

While I personally prefer O/U's and SxS's for many things, and if I had to pick one gun it would be an O/U most likely, there are many other advantages of a semi-auto whether you like them or not.

One of them is the ability to hold and shoot 3-6 rounds where and when that is legal for hunting game.

Another is reloading in a cramped situation like a blind or a boat - much easier with a semi.

I agree with you that cleaning a gas auto is very easy and a lot less time consuming than most people constantly bitch about. Some people waste hours texting, tweeting, talking on the phone, and watching Jersey Shore or whatever, and complain about 15 minutes of cleaning a gun. Hopefully nobody on here watches MSNBC, that is not only a time waster, but can cause brain disease. But I digress...........

By the way, I also disagree with you on the "Inertia is just recoil", as if it's a marketing gimmick. While of course it operates due to the recoiling mass of the gun vs. the bolt, it is very different from Long recoil mechanisms such as the Browning Auto-5, 11-48, etc. All have their features, benefits, and drawbacks, but it will be confusing for any new guys to read that inertia systems are no different than other recoil operated systems, especially in a thread titled "Recoil Operated vs. Gas Operated". Wikipedia, not always the most precise source, but here does a fairly good job of describing it as:

Quote:
The newest design in recoil-operated firearms is the inertia operated system. In a reversal of the other designs, the inertia system uses nearly the entire firearm as the recoiling component, with only the bolt remaining stationary during firing. Because of this, the inertia system is only applied to heavily recoiling firearms, particularly shotguns


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:30 pm 
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nody wrote:
BTW, "inertia" is just a BS marketing euphemism for "recoil."
You are mistaken. In the context of semi-auto shotguns the terms "inertia" and "recoil" are used to differentiate between two entirely different methods of operation. In this regard the terms are not interchangeable and one is definitely not a euphemism for the other.


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:18 pm 
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When it comes to felt recoil, it makes little to no difference on the type of auto loading operation the gun has. What does matter is all of the other factors of felt recoil. Gas operated models (newer designs) in general are better at cycling the widest range of loads out any of the other various auto loading operations. Benelli does in fact use the Inertia design. It’s still a type of “Recoil” operated gun, but differs from the other “Recoil” operated guns except the new Browning Kinematic system. It’s a copyright name and also defines its operational differences from other auto loading operations. The Long Recoil system that was first developed by John M Browning for the Auto-5 still has very much in common with some of today’s “Recoil” operated models. The Franchi AL48 that is still being produced today is in fact Long Recoil operated and Breda may still be making their Long Recoil operated model.

While Pumps and O/U do have some advantages, auto loaders have more than just recoil reduction over fixed breech models. Auto loaders allow a faster controlled follow up shot over fixed breech models. Most modern auto loaders have shim systems to adjust the fit of the stock by the end user. Only one pump, the Benelli Super Nova has an adjustable stock. Many of today’s auto loaders have magazine cutoffs. Only the Super Nova has this feature, although I can trick my 870 into cutting off the rounds in the magazine. Auto loaders don’t have a rattly forearm that moves back and forth changing the balance of the gun. Auto loaders are easily operated in spots that can be awkward for the fixed breech guns. There are more auto loading models to choose from than pumps. Auto loaders of today in general are lighter in weight than pumps. The auto loader and pump provide more fire power than an O/U. If this were not a factor, then most dove hunters and waterfowlers (minus Spring Snow’s) in America would not have plugs in their guns. If you freeze up an O/U on a cold morning while waterfowling, you are pretty much done for a while.

Again, see the link for the various auto loading operations.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103338&start=20


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:44 am
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Worc: If you held the forearm of a pump shotgun backwards for a minute or so it might cause a change in the balance, IMHO. And none of my Remington 870's have a 'rattly' forearm.


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Shootshellz wrote:
Worc: If you held the forearm of a pump shotgun backwards for a minute or so it might cause a change in the balance, IMHO. And none of my Remington 870's have a 'rattly' forearm.


Any movement back and forth more than a fraction of an inch is changing the balance. That fact is not dependent solely on the duration of that movement. The forearm on my 1970’s vintage Wingmaster is relatively tight compared to many other pumps. However, it’s quite rattly compared to any of my auto loaders or any other auto loader I’ve ever held. It’s a comparison of pumps to auto loaders, not pumps to pumps.


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:20 am 
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Worc: IMHO you must possess superhuman balancing skills. Are you a tightrope walker, by chance?


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:53 pm 
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nody wrote:
The only true advantage of an auto is less recoil than a pump, O/U, or SxS, period.


It is a lot easier to drop that third dove with an autoloader than it is with any O/U or SxS. The obvious advantage of a repeater is capacity. That holds true for all kinds of firearms, not just shotguns. There isn't much of a market for a two-shot Glock, a two-shot lever gun, or a two shot bolt action. It also doesn't make a huge amount of sense to hunt with a gun that you have to break in half in order to load it.

Barrel regulation issues aren't, as you are using only one barrel. Does that double come close to fitting you, kinda sorta close? No easy non-gunsmithing way to adjust for drop and cast, with many autoloaders it is all in the box. Sure, there may be some recoil reduction-- but that as well doesn't depart dramatically from the basics of gun weight, shell payload, and muzzle velocity.

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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:57 pm 
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What kind of a slob hunter gives a crap about dropping a third DOVE?!?

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 Post subject: Re: Recoil operated vs. Gas operated?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:15 pm 
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I'm calling BS over the "speed" being the only advantage argument. I've got a buggered up shoulder. Before I started dropping money on devices, I thought I'd try a gas gun with a reputation as a soft shooter.
HELLO! How nice to bang away at 12 gauge costs with 28 gauge recoil.
And ditto re "inertia." "Moment of inertia" is a measure of handling characteristics in shotguns.
Finally, 3 doves? Hey, I'm not trying to be Tom Knapp; I just want something for the grill!
Granted, I am no pump gunner to speak of. I have an M42 that I think is a total giggle maker and an 870 Police (walnut & blue version) that is my "Uh oh" or Zombie gun, but otherwise I gun doubles and semis.

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