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 Post subject: American Arms O/U
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:26 am 
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I'm looking at a American Arms Bristol, 20 gauge O/U. The gun has fixed chokes ( mod *** and IC ****). Looks in good shape some wear on the stock, the bluing is good and the reciever is coin finished as well as the side plates (add on ) and engraved.

I know the gun was made by Francesco Sarriugarte in Elguibar, Spain. What I don't know right now is when it was made (year of mfgr) or how well it is made.

Is it a good buy at $525 the guy is comming down from $550.


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 Post subject: Re: American Arms O/U
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:35 am 
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It's a $300 gun tops... if he won't come down into that range, just walk away. Used gun racks at your LGS are likely filled with cheap doubles...

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 Post subject: Re: American Arms O/U
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:38 am 
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I wouldn't be so quick to call Sarriugarte OU a cheap double. The gun in question was made in 1989-90. My book, WHICH IS SIX YEARS OLD, says $750 in excellent condition; $500 good and a few bucks could be added for the 20 ga. The Bristol was later called the Sterling. Sarriugarte after 1990 became known as Kemen. They currently make high grade competition OUs. Take a look at some of the Kemen prices. They are very well respected makers.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/KEMEN- ... =100160518

$525 could be a very fair price. A picture of the gun would help to determine value.

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 Post subject: Re: American Arms O/U
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Patriot usa wrote:
I wouldn't be so quick to call Sarriugarte OU a cheap double. The gun in question was made in 1989-90. My book, WHICH IS SIX YEARS OLD, says $750 in excellent condition; $500 good and a few bucks could be added for the 20 ga. The Bristol was later called the Sterling. Sarriugarte after 1990 became known as Kemen. They currently make high grade competition OUs. Take a look at some of the Kemen prices. They are very well respected makers.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/KEMEN- ... =100160518

$525 could be a very fair price. A picture of the gun would help to determine value.


Patriot,

While I agree with your price estimate (depending on condition of course), I wouldn't be so quick to equate a Sarriuguarte with a Kemen, just like it doesn't make sense to equate a house cat with a jaguar just because they are both cats and were made by God. These are two totally different guns. I believe that Sarriuguarte's relationship to Kemen, their prices, and their reputation as a gunmaker is irrelevant in this situation except as a footnote to Wieland's "Spanish Best."


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 Post subject: Re: American Arms O/U
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:21 pm 
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And Blue Book values are quite subjective once they stray out of mainstream guns - both above and below "real world" prices. For a better feeling of price, scouring the internet for similar guns will be your best bet.

Here's a recent auction, does it look like what you're contemplating? It's a sideplated-boxlock, but nicely engraved.

Image
Image

That gun also had some nice wood for a $500 gun, but the single trigger turns me off (personal preference only)

MD

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Last edited by mountaindave on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: American Arms O/U
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:26 pm 
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Patriot usa wrote:
I wouldn't be so quick to call Sarriugarte OU a cheap double.


IMO, the blue book is often wrong, and this would be one of those cases. That said, I shouldn't have used the word cheap (which has a negative connotation) when what I meant was inexpensive...

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 Post subject: Re: American Arms O/U
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:24 am 
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I was merely pointing out what Sarriugarte had become; a maker of high grade guns under the name Kemen and not comparing the said gun with what they make today.

Wieland states that Sarriugarte's first ou guns were medium grade. I wouldn't call that cheap or inexpensive and gradually went into high grade. They have also since made one high grade SXS, the Imperial.

Kemen was founded by three Sarriugartes and an employee.

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 Post subject: Re: American Arms O/U
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:27 am 
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Yes that's the model I'm looking at. The stock doesn't have the same grain figure as the one I looked at, but all stocks are different. What caught my eye is the engraving with the side plates. And I want a 20 ga. O/U. The seller still had the gun as of Tuesday 4/3.


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 Post subject: Re: American Arms O/U
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:46 am 
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If it looks that good, I'd take it. I have an 20 ga. Italian O/U for grouse that I just love. Different gun, but same era and about the same price. Very worth it.

Most dealers will maneuver a bit more for cash in hand. Try for $500.

MD

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 Post subject: Re: American Arms O/U
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:06 pm 
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Jag,

I think it depends a lot on what you plan to use the gun for. If you want it for a hunting gun which would be carried a lot and shot a little, then it might be worth $400 to $450 tops, IMO.

If you are wanting a gun to shoot targets with, keep looking.

A 20 year old American Arms O/U with fixed chokes is not in much demand. There are LOTS of better guns for a few hundred more. Parts availability might be an issue also. Don't know that for sure, but I'd sure check into it before purchasing it. Just my 2 cents. Good luck whatever you decide to do.

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 Post subject: Re: American Arms O/U
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Thanks for the advice on the American Arms 20 gauge. When I had seen the gun at the sportsman show I offered $400 cash and the owner said no. I think I'll wait and see what comes up. The Standard Catalog says the gun was inported in 1986 with choke tubes. This gun has fixed chokes and must have been imported early 1986 or earlier.

I would use it just for hunting and light trap shooting at the public range. I'll wait a while and make another offer.

Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: American Arms O/U
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:35 pm 
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If it truly isn't worth what he is asking, then it will still be there and he may change his mind later. :wink:

You should be able to determine the age by looking for a date stamp on the barrels somewhere. I don't know exactly where it would be on an O/U, but somewhere at the breech end or it may be on the action flats. Check the sticky for date codes and maker's marks.

MD

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 Post subject: Re: American Arms O/U
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:10 pm 
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I think I'll let it set for a few weeks and give him a call to find out if it is still for sale.

Then make another offer. I do want to get a 20 gauge over/under but I'm willing to wait.

Who knows there maybe something else that comes up. And by then the toy fund will be larger.


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