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 Post subject: Re: Winchester sx3 vs beretta 391 urika gold
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:13 am
Posts: 337
Location: Tennessee
Longrangehunter80,
I have three Browning golds and one Silver which are as I am told virtually the same as the SX3 models. I also have two Beretta 390's, the predecessor of the 391 you are looking at. In my opinion and experience, my 390's are more reliable, will go much, much longer between cleanings and the pieces that make up the Beretta's look to be more substantial to me. If I were headed to Argentina to shoot hundreds of rounds during a day and didn't want to deal with FTF's, I would not even have to think twice.

Browning has tried to make inroads into the NSCA circuit, but the Beretta's remain king...overwhelmingly...for a reason. I'm not saying the Beretta's haven't had any problems, or that the Browning/Winchester is a bad gun, but in my mind, the 391 is a better choice. Plus, it's the gold version with better wood!

Chris




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 Post subject: Re: Winchester sx3 vs beretta 391 urika gold
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:53 pm
Posts: 12170
Location: Michigan
Browning auto loaders have won more NSCA championships than any other auto loader brand, even combined. The Beretta AL391 is the most popular auto loader today in NSCA without a doubt. Neither fact would be any type of factor in my own decision making on selecting a model. The Remington 1100 is the most popular auto loader sold and for clays use. Yet, I never recommend this model.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester sx3 vs beretta 391 urika gold
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:13 am
Posts: 337
Location: Tennessee
Worc wrote:
Browning auto loaders have won more NSCA championships than any other auto loader brand, even combined.


In my recollection, Bobby Fowler was the only one to ever win the Nationals with the Gold/Silver/Winchester platform gun. As far as the guns the OP is referring to, the comparison in today's terms of sporting clays, it doesn't come close...Beretta has been king for many years. Nothing Browning did with any guns prior to the gold system is revelant to this particular discussion...neither is the 1100 as the OP didn't mention it in his choices.

Here again, I own four of them (Browning Gold/Silver) and I hunt with all four of them, but in my experience of serving as a range safety officer at a public range for the last ten years as well as shooting my own, the 391 is the choice I would make. My 12 gauge Golds don't even think about firing as light loads as the 390/391's will shoot all day, but I will say that my 20's do quite well with 3/4 oz. cream puffs. Your experience and choice may be different.

Chris


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester sx3 vs beretta 391 urika gold
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:23 pm 
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Posts: 12170
Location: Michigan
CLuttrell wrote:
Worc wrote:
Browning auto loaders have won more NSCA championships than any other auto loader brand, even combined.


In my recollection, Bobby Fowler was the only one to ever win the Nationals with the Gold/Silver/Winchester platform gun. As far as the guns the OP is referring to, the comparison in today's terms of sporting clays, it doesn't come close...Beretta has been king for many years. Nothing Browning did with any guns prior to the gold system is revelant to this particular discussion...neither is the 1100 as the OP didn't mention it in his choices.

Here again, I own four of them (Browning Gold/Silver) and I hunt with all four of them, but in my experience of serving as a range safety officer at a public range for the last ten years as well as shooting my own, the 391 is the choice I would make. My 12 gauge Golds don't even think about firing as light loads as the 390/391's will shoot all day, but I will say that my 20's do quite well with 3/4 oz. cream puffs. Your experience and choice may be different.

Chris


But yet you talk about the 390's you have as they are the same gun as the AL391 the OP is asking about. They are not!

The fact remains Browning has more NSCA chamionships than any other auto loader brands. If the AL391 is popular for a good reason as you put it, why can't the 1100 be a better gun then any other auto loader? It's the same logic, except it does not fit your example to your liking.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester sx3 vs beretta 391 urika gold
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:13 am
Posts: 337
Location: Tennessee
Worc,
The 391 is basically the same gun as the 390 with the addition of the admittedly over complicated spring. Your fact about the Browning's of yesteryear still has no relevance to this discussion...a fact apparently not to your liking! In terms of the 1100, it doesn't have a discernible presence in today's NSCA either although it would be more relevant to our discussion because it's design has not changed, but here again, the OP DID NOT ASK ABOUT THE 1100.

For a moderator, you sure get your feathers ruffled easily when someone has a different take on something than you do. I was offering my opinion to the OP... sorry you were offended by it.

Chris


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester sx3 vs beretta 391 urika gold
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:01 am 
Moderator
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:53 pm
Posts: 12170
Location: Michigan
As a Moderator here, I'm still entitled to point out facts and express my opinions. I'm also allowed to debate the finer points of shot gunning with members. What Moderators here don't allow is the name calling and petty stuff that can happen between members and lately deleting SPAM. All of this is done to try to improve the site for members like you to enjoy. I have no problem with a different opinion than mine. I will however speak my mind when I see the facts skewed or misrepresented in any way. I doubt there is anything you or any other member could ever say to offend me. So, feel free to continue on if you don't agree with me as long as you do it within the sites rules.

The 390 and AL391/Urika 2 are not the same gun, period. They have some parts that do interchange like the carrier. Notice the 390's never had a carrier issue like the AL391/Urika 2 did. No parts from the front of the guns interchange. I'm guessing that you mean the valve spring and retaining nuts to be the overcomplicated spring. It's more than that though, as the magazine cap on the AL391/Urika 2 can be included. I never heard of any piston problems on the 390 like there have been some on the AL391. Again, they are different designs and not interchangeable.

The Browning Gold is as closely related or more so to the SX3 as the 390 is to the AL391/Urika 2. If you lay claim that the AL391 virtues apply to the 390, then so does the Gold to the SX3. You made the 1100 relevant as soon as you made the statement that the AL391 is popular for a reason. It's the very same argument the 1100 fans use in defense for their beloved model. In other words if you want to be a champ with an auto loader in NSCA, use a Browning. If you want to be in NSCA and be like everyone else with an auto loader, use a Beretta. If you want to have a popular auto loader, use an 1100.
Personally, I don't think any of it is relevant. That's why I said in an earlier post none of it would sway my own decision making in selecting an auto loader. See my quote.
Quote:
Neither fact would be any type of factor in my own decision making on selecting a model.
You may also note that the OP did not ask about NSCA or even SC. Yet you interjected it into the post. All that was said was "clays". Most members here use that as a generic term for any type of clay target shooting that could include SC, five Stand, Skeet, the various Trap games, backyard versions, or any combination. He also did not ask about a Beretta 390, Browning Gold, or a Browning Silver, yet you brought them up as examples. So, if you have concerns that this thread got off course with different models and brands of auto loaders, just take a look at your own first post.

If you have an opinion that I got something wrong here, please point it out and I'll be more than happy to clarify.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester sx3 vs beretta 391 urika gold
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:15 am 
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Location: Plainfield, IL
Longrangehunter80 wrote:
I have a chance to buy both of these guns for the same price. Which one do you think I should get. I will mainly do dove and clays.

Beretta 391 urika gold sporting (first gen not urika2)
28" barrel, custom chokes, 95-98% condition unknown round count.

Winchester sx3a mossy oak
26" 3.5 in new in box.

What do y'all think?

Thanks


The 391, easily. Not because it is always a better gun-- if you consider bolt buffer and shell lifter issues, along with the whacky fore end nut, it isn't. But, once you get those sorted (if needed) what you are talking about is a far more appropriate clays / dove shotgun.

_________________
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http://randywakeman.com


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester sx3 vs beretta 391 urika gold
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:13 am
Posts: 337
Location: Tennessee
Worc wrote:
As a Moderator here, I'm still entitled to point out facts and express my opinions. I'm also allowed to debate the finer points of shot gunning with members.


Absolutely by all means...it just seems that many of your posts lately have come across as your opinion being gospel and the final word. I trust that is not how you intended it to be.

Worc wrote:
The 390 and AL391/Urika 2 are not the same gun, period.


I agree more with your previous assessment in another thread...viewtopic.php?f=57&t=109649
as you posted in the Beretta forums sticky at the top of the page that the guns were mechanically the same. That was the premise I was trying to make and I agree with your statement concerning that.

Worc wrote:
The Browning Gold is as closely related or more so to the SX3 as the 390 is to the AL391/Urika 2. If you lay claim that the AL391 virtues apply to the 390, then so does the Gold to the SX3.


I again agree wholeheartedly and that is why I spoke to the gold/silver guns.

Worc wrote:
So, if you have concerns that this thread got off course with different models and brands of auto loaders, just take a look at your own first post.


I still stand by the relevance of my post with regards to reliability. Worc, I'm going to set an example here for you in that our needless bantering is going to stop with me. This thread didn't and doesn't have to be about me and you. {hs#

Longerangehunter80,
Best of luck with whichever gun you choose. Shoot it safely and shoot it often!

Chris


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester sx3 vs beretta 391 urika gold
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:57 pm 
Moderator
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:53 pm
Posts: 12170
Location: Michigan
Quote:
CLuttrell wrote:
Absolutely by all means...it just seems that many of your posts lately have come across as your opinion being gospel and the final word. I trust that is not how you intended it to be.

I could say the same thing about you and your opinions. My opinion is no more valid than any other members and vise versa. I will say that my opinions are formed from firsthand experience instead of passing along information I read somewhere else. I can't control how anyone else interprets what I write. Again, I'm always willing to clarify if asked to.

Quote:
CLuttrell wrote:
I agree more with your previous assessment in another thread...viewtopic.php?f=57&t=109649
as you posted in the Beretta forums sticky at the top of the page that the guns were mechanically the same. That was the premise I was trying to make and I agree with your statement concerning that.

You need to re-read that post. I was saying that AL391 Urika and Teknys models were mechanically the same, not AL391's and 390's.


Quote:
CLuttrell wrote:
I again agree wholeheartedly and that is why I spoke to the gold/silver guns.

The Gold has the same Gas system for the most to the SX3. The way they release and block rounds from the magazine are vastly different. Issues the Gold may have therefore don't always apply to the SX3 and the other way around because they are not the same gun. That's why I say it's not a relevant model to this post.


Quote:
CLuttrell wrote:
Worc, I'm going to set an example here for you in that our needless bantering is going to stop with me. This thread didn't and doesn't have to be about me and you.

It's not about you or I, at least for me. It's about getting the facts correct. It always has been and will always be that way.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester sx3 vs beretta 391 urika gold
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 8:30 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:39 am
Posts: 707
In gas semi-auto I will always go with a Beretta.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester sx3 vs beretta 391 urika gold
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:24 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:26 am
Posts: 26
I bought my wife the SX3 youth model based on all the great reviews we heard on them. Not too many youth models to chose from!!

Well, it has FTF a LOT. We have been shooting my reloads 7/8th 12ga and Federal Field and Game 1 1/8ths. I've heard Federals are something to stay away from, but my Beretta AL2 eats them up. Then my reloads are usually no problem on either gun.

However, the SX3 just gets dirty and starts to stiffen up. We have had it only a few months, but put at least 500 rounds a month though it. If the new 391's are anything like the old Berettas, that's where I would put my money. Funny thing is, I'm looking to "upgrade" to a 303 DU model. I just want to be able to shoot 3" on some ugly geese this season. I'm just stuck about 10 years in the past. If I could do it again, I would buy her an SX1 and just have the stock professionally fit.

IMO, they just dont make them like they used to!


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester sx3 vs beretta 391 urika gold
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:29 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:26 am
Posts: 26
Yes, the FTF issues have appeared to be shell lifter issues! Are there any fixes for that and the SX3?




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