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 Post subject: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:23 pm 
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Already Googled this but still need help.

Does anyone know if Ithaca ever made over under shotguns, NOT SKB but actually made by Ithaca?

I am aware of the Phoenix, what I am looking for is an older model that I heard rumor of.

Thanks.



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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 6:37 pm 
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AFAIK, Ithaca never mfg'ed an o/u, only imported them.

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:07 pm 
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AFAIK Browning, Remington, Savage (Model 240) & Marlin were the only major US companies that made their own O/U shotguns - and even the Browning O/U's were made in Belgium before Japan.

Everyone else's were rebranded for them by the maker.

.

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:56 pm 
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Kolar, Ljutic, CSMC, Seitz, Alfermann, Devault (soon) and some others I'm sure I'm forgetting all make or made over/unders completely in the US.

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:52 am 
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Ok thanks!

Again I have done some searches on this and still found nothing.

Does anyone now who was making Ithaca O/U in the 60s?

A little background this is for a father's day gift and he waxes on and on about this magic Ithaca he had back in the 60s and swears it was mad by Ithaca, but I suspect it was an SKB.

Any info or point in the right direction would be appreciated.

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:01 am 
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CriscoKid wrote:
AFAIK Browning, Remington, Savage (Model 240) & Marlin were the only major US companies that made their own O/U shotguns - and even the Browning O/U's were made in Belgium before Japan.

Everyone else's were rebranded for them by the maker.

.


Browning has never made an O/U... their's are also rebranded-- from FN in the case of the Belgian guns and from Miroku in the case of the Japanese guns.

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:07 am 
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drsfmd wrote:
Browning has never made an O/U... their's are also rebranded-- from FN in the case of the Belgian guns and from Miroku in the case of the Japanese guns.


So then Browning never made an A5, Gold or many other guns?


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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:21 am 
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tdavidk76 wrote:
drsfmd wrote:
Browning has never made an O/U... their's are also rebranded-- from FN in the case of the Belgian guns and from Miroku in the case of the Japanese guns.


So then Browning never made an A5, Gold or many other guns?


Are those O/U's?

And actually, as far as I know, Browning never did make an A-5 of their own... that was made by FN and later by Miroku in Japan as well. The Gold isn't made by Browning either... again, it's made by FN.

In a sense, FN and Browning *are* the same company, but there's this idea that Browning is an American company making firearms in America, and that's simply not true.

Other than the Buckmarks and 1911-22, has Browning ever manufactured a gun in the US? I can't think of any exceptions...

Let's go right to the horse's mouth to see what Browning has to say about the matter: http://www.browning.com/customerservice ... .asp?id=90

To the OP... my apologies for the thread jack. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:54 am 
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This is dragging the original topic way off course, but the Browning Brothers were building their single shot rifle in America before they sold the design to the big W. There was a great display of them at the Charles M. Russell Museum in Great Falls, Montana, last time I was there.

Another student in my class in highschool, who knew I was a gun nut even then, once invited me over to his home to see three shotguns he inherited from his Grandfather -- a 12-guage Black Diamond Model 12 two barrel set in a leg-of-mutton case, a 12-gauge Specialty Grade L.C. Smith two barrel set in a leg-of-mutton case and a hammerless 10-gauge side-by-side marked Browning Brothers, Ogden, Utah. I wish I had a better memory of that gun. Did JMB make it or was it something "trade branded" for their store?


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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:22 am 
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No worries, I have jacked a thread or two and its karma...

I would still like to find out who was making Ithaca O/U in the 60s.

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:29 am 
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drsfmd wrote:

Other than the Buckmarks and 1911-22, has Browning ever manufactured a gun in the US? I can't think of any exceptions...


FN = Browning as in Herstal Group. Of course they manufacture here in the states: FNH-USA. It was Herstal Group that spent a fortune trying to Winchester afloat. Its confusing brands with companies, like saying Remington never made anything-- it was DuPont, or RACI.

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:25 am 
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Randy- I acknowledged as much. Where I erred was in making the delineation between Belgian FN, and "American" Browning.

Now, other than the guns I mentioned, are there any American manufactured Brownings?

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:47 am 
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There were the famous Remington made "American Brownings" made during and right after World War Two.

And I forget too, from time to time, that Remington made the Model 32, the Model 3200, ,and mabye some of those oddball Peerless or whatever they called them from year to year over and unders during the late 1990's. Remington also made a very nice double barreled shotgun that is usually forgotten during a listing of classic American side by sides, too. Remington gets no respect for double guns, and I can't tell you why. I'm guilty of it, too.
But as far as I know Ithaca only imported SKB's and Perazzis as over and under shotguns, and never manufactured an over and under until the Phoenix.

It was probably an Ithaca SKB Model 600. I have one and it's about as nice as an over and under gets for the money. If it was the Perazzi I'd think he'd remember that.;)


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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:49 am 
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Skeet_Man wrote:
Kolar, Ljutic, CSMC, Seitz, Alfermann, Devault (soon) and some others I'm sure I'm forgetting all make or made over/unders completely in the US.


FWIW, I said American "Major" players, aka those producing O/U's by the many several thousands, and not the minor leaguers that are fortunate to make a thousand O/U's.


ITO wrote:
I would still like to find out who was making Ithaca O/U in the 60s.


IIRC, there were no "Ithaca" O/U's in the 1960's, Perazzi branded Ithaca's in the 1970's, SKB branded Ithaca's in the 1970's & 80's, & FABARM branded some in the mid-90's - but I can't recall exactly which Ithaca's the FABARM's were.


.

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Last edited by CriscoKid on Fri May 18, 2012 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:54 am 
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CriscoKid wrote:
FWIW, I said "Major" players, aka those producing O/U's by the many several thousands, and not the minor leaguers that are fortunate to make a thousand O/U's.


Are Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, & Rolls Royce "Minor Leaguers". None make as many cars as Ford or Honda, but no one in their right mind would dismiss them as minor leaguers...

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:02 pm 
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When anybody except an elitist looks at the sheer production numbers, number of employees, (not to mention) company profitibility & the desire for "American made", they ARE minor players.

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:03 pm 
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I'm kind of thin on Ithaca paper in the 1960s, but there are no over/unders in the 1959-60 or 1963 Ithaca catalogues, but the SKBs are there by the 1966 Ithaca Cun Co. catalogue.


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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:22 pm 
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Kolar has exceeded 3700 guns at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:19 pm 
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CriscoKid wrote:
When anybody except an elitist looks at the sheer production numbers, number of employees, (not to mention) company profitibility & the desire for "American made", they ARE minor players.


Under those criteria they may be, but when you look at their R&D that is later adopted by the rest of the industry, they are major players.

Of course, by your standard, that would make Rolex a minor league player in the watch industry.

In other words, the metric you are using is inherently flawed.

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 Post subject: Re: Ithaca Over and Under Made by Ithaca
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:46 pm 
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Are we sure about the Phoenix? I have only seen pictures and there is "photoshop".




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