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 Post subject: 12 ga. chamber inserts
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:48 pm 
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What is the risk or should I say, how much additional risk do I incur by shooting 12 ga. Hevi shot reloads in a 10 GA. SXS using chamber inserts. The gun is a heavily built Beretta model 410 proofed in Europe with chrome molly barrels & Briley extended tubes. I have shot a lot of 3.5", 1 5/8 oz. Hevi shot in it using Hodgdon's data. All my loads are in the 1200 fps range, are buffered, have a mylar collar inside of the wad & have a fragementable fiber top wad to prevent pellets from getting out of the shotcup while in the barrel. The 12 ga. loads are in a 3" hull & are loaded w/ 1 1/8 oz. #6's or 1.25 oz. #5 Hevi shot. I hear 12 ga. guns are often overbored to 10 ga. dia. anyway. I know a chap that does a lot of pressure testing. He uses 12 ga. shells as barrel warmers for his 10 ga. guns w/ no chamber inserts (as is) before he fires a 10 ga. test load. I ain't going to do it but it seems to work for him. My guess is there is little or no additional risk but I'm just guessing. Does anybody know of any technical poop on this subject? Looking back, my question is somewhat ambiguous. I am referring to barrel damage from the hard Hevi shot pellets due to the increased barrel dia. of the 10 bore, not due to the use of chamber inserts. The reference to inserts is just a description of how I would fire them.




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 Post subject: Re: 12 ga. chamber inserts
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:56 pm 
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To start ... I'd be sure that the load youre using's psi is lower than the 10 gauge max SAAMI since the 10 gauge only has a max psi of 11,000 psi but the 3" 12 gauge has a max psi of 11,500.

Even if its safe for the gun itself, I'd imagine you could still damage the inserts ... much the same way some target reloads aren't good for tube sets.

I really wouldn't worry too much about barrel damage if you'd normally shoot 10 gauge steel shells through it. I'd look at it much the same as the over bored barrels on some 12 gauges. Just my thoughts

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 Post subject: Re: 12 ga. chamber inserts
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:50 pm 
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Shooting steel or other hard non-tox through a tube set is a huge no-no. The wads will split going down the bigger diameter barrel causing the shot to rub up against the barrel and potentially score it.

If you shoot hevi-shot classic doubles you should be alright.

It may be hard to get a good pattern with the tube set, a lot of people have trouble getting good patterns with them... which is why they are typically frowned upon in the field.


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 Post subject: Re: 12 ga. chamber inserts
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:42 am 
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Thank you for your answers but I don't think you understand my question.
O.K., they are not tubes, they are chamber inserts & I am not worried about them. The gun is proofed for 10 bar ammo. & it will take much more pressure to damage it than any 12 ga. 3" ammo. will generate. I don't intend to shoot anything in it that exceeds SAAMI specs but that is a joke. Folks shoot 3.5", 12 ga. ammo. in 10 ga. guns using chamber inserts all the time. Fact is I don't know where you could find a 3.5" 12 ga. as sturdy as this gun. SAAMI specs are written for the weakest gun the ammo. is likely to be fired in & there are a lot of junk bolt & single shot 10 ga. guns out there with headspace problems. This ain't one of them. IT IS PROOFED FOR 10 BAR AMMO.
My question has nothing to do with what pressure the gun will take or the chamber inserts. It is what is the increased risk of Barrel Damage, if any, shooting 12 ga. shells in a 10 ga. bore that are loaded with Hevi shot due to pellets protrudeing through or getting out of the shotcup. I am thinking that the MYLAR insert would prevent that but I was hopeing someone out there would have a better answer.
BBK, looking back & rereading your post, the part about the wad splitting makes sense but I am still a little confused. Are you saying that a tube set has a larger diameter than it's gauge or does it expand when you shoot it? Again, there is no tube set here & there is much less difference going from a 10 bore diameter to a 12 bore dia. than going from a 12 bore to a 20 bore.


Last edited by geometric on Thu May 31, 2012 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 12 ga. chamber inserts
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:58 am 
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My whole post was about chamber inserts, I just used the wrong word. There is no way in hell I would shoot a hard shot through one. The wad will split going down the barrel and shot WILL rub against the barrel, it is going to happen. Whether or not it will damage the barrel, that is up in the air.


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 Post subject: Re: 12 ga. chamber inserts
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:02 pm 
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BBK, Thank you. I didn't intend to be arrogant, rude or anything, I just thought you didn't understand my question. It turned out that I was the one that didn't understand. Running everything through my less than perfect brain, I think that going from 12 ga. to 10 ga. is much less risk than the most common jump from 12 ga. to 20 ga. but nevertheless, the risk is still there. I stand to loose much more than I could gain. Your answer is what I need to know.


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 Post subject: Re: 12 ga. chamber inserts
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:42 pm 
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But, while we are speaking of tubes (the ones that go the length of the barrel(s)), those would work for steel shot and other non-tox I bet. With those you have a 12 bore barrel all the way to the end, there is no drop from 12 ga to 10 ga where the wad could open up.

Chamber inserts and bismuth or hevi-shot classic doubles would work because that shot is not supposed to score barrels if it makes contact. But still, the wads will split and the shot will make contact with the barrel when it hits the 10 bore diameter so you have to make sure you use a shot that is not supposed to scratch barrels.


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 Post subject: Re: 12 ga. chamber inserts
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:39 am 
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The 12 guage Mossberg 835 and 935 guns use barrels with the same ID as a 10ga.
They are, in effect shooting a 12ga steel load through a 10 ga barrel. Don't see many issues cropping up with them, right?

Seems to me that you....nor your gun....would be in any danger from firing a 12ga shell in an insert in your 10ga gun.


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 Post subject: Re: 12 ga. chamber inserts
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:23 pm 
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geometric I don't think it will be a big deal there are lots of over bore 12ga, However I have 16ga to 20ga inserts and they have a spilt that run down the insert. The hulls are a shoot once deal, They get a crack down the hull in my guns. Others have said it just marks there hulls , My chambers must be a little large.

Lew


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 Post subject: Re: 12 ga. chamber inserts
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:17 pm 
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mudpack & wildlew, that is what I think also. Not enough difference to make a difference.


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 Post subject: Re: 12 ga. chamber inserts
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:45 pm 
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In a 10 bore barrel the wads will open to about 1/32" in the slits of a 4 pedal steel shot wad. Your choice to believe whether a #6 pellet can rub through a 1/32" opening or not.


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 Post subject: Re: 12 ga. chamber inserts
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:17 pm 
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BBK, Yes, I agree. The probability of damage is low but there is almost nothing to be gained & a lot to loose. That is why I probably won't do it but that is not the whole story. My heavishot reloads always have a couple layers of mylar inside of the steel shot wad.




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