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 Post subject: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:30 pm 
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Coach or First class, Window or Aisle, Smoking or Non Smoking......

Ok, for those that are familiar with both DVDs or styles....is there one you prefer and why?
Paul and Todd>>>no cheating!

I'm starting to get more serious about learning better technique, I'm no super star but want to climb up the classes and start running straights in registered shoots. I have no dog in the hunt and have not asked my soon to be level 1 instructor.
So please give me your answer (your age and number of years shooting as well as class would be helpful for me to see how others are choosing).
AND, please stay away from the politically correct BOTH.



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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:56 am 
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Want the truth, neither until you have some lesson under your belt so you understand the whole concept of what they are getting across first.

Then before you buy either video, while still working with your shooting coach, take a lesson with either, then bring back what either have spoken to you about to clean up/worked on, so you current instructor can reinforce such finding so bad habits don't creep back in.

To bottom line it, the video's are primers, and reinforcements at best, and until someone is watching you shoot to find the flaws, then mimicking a video (badly at best) without full understanding of what is going on and why, will cause more trouble than good with just more flaws in the end that have to be worked out of your form later.


So to bottom line it, if you are planning on running straight, then first get your form correct via one on one instructions with a shooting couch or instructor, then learn to get your mind right so you can do it (learn to get the hell out of your own way). Wearing out a DVD by watching it over and over again is not going to get you where you want to be.

P.S. Both videos are really the same style, but explained differently by the two.


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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:27 am 
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Neither, although I'm sure they are good...

I don't particulary like the crouch, crawl into the gun leg drive etc....

long term a more upright posture may suit you better... give this a look.

http://www.chrisbatha.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi4NbyK9jOM (notice no crouch, no bent knees and no crawling the gunstock )

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FORUMS are ENTERTAINMENT. They don't teach shooting! Watch anonymous big talkers. You get a tip, not a system.


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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:34 pm
Posts: 1251
Location: Pinehurst, NC
Since you are in NC, why don't you go to Craig Kirkman. I work with him on a regular basis and I like his stlye of shooting and teaching...plus he is close.

Travis in NC


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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:08 am 
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thanks!
I do plan on trying to get some Craig time, no doubt! I'm only in my 15th month of skeet, I started with some lessons the first couple of months and they were very helpful. I've been wanting to be more serious about things in the last few months though. I did just win my last D class with a 94 and want to make the next leap/ I have a plan but also want some reinforcement media around. Will be re-starting some lessons in July, hopefully time with Craig in the fall.

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Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other. R.Reagan
Proud member of the super cheap choke club! Got my first straight with a $10 choke!


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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:57 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:09 am
Posts: 117
Travis gave you some sound advice, you have I think 2 of the best teachers around T. Kirkman and C Kirkman within easy driving distance. They have helped many shooters, and several world champions.


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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:00 am 
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Eriehunter wrote:
Neither, although I'm sure they are good...

I don't particulary like the crouch, crawl into the gun leg drive etc....

long term a more upright posture may suit you better... give this a look.

http://www.chrisbatha.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi4NbyK9jOM (notice no crouch, no bent knees and no crawling the gunstock )


While Mr. Batha may be a good sporting clays instructor, he's never shot a single registered skeet target. It would be totally wasted money.

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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:27 am 
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I have had the Kirkman's on my wish list before this thread. I'll get there, thanks!

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Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other. R.Reagan
Proud member of the super cheap choke club! Got my first straight with a $10 choke!


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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:48 am 
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Location: South Texas
Both are the best out there...either live or on DVD. Both are very similar. I like 'em both.

I agree with Dano...work with a good local instructor. I say that for one simple reason, Todd & LP can't be everywhere at once, so you may be able to catch a lesson once or twice a year. Right now what you need is once a week. You need someone watching your every move, correcting, explaining, and polishing.

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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:04 am 
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Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 7:43 am
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Don't forget the GOAT, Wayne Mayes! Awesome instructor!


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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:33 am 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
:roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:34 am 
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 8:17 am
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Location: Piedmont North Carolina
I second (third, fourth, or whatever) the Kirkman suggestions. Tommy is one grandfather than can kick anyone's tail on a good day and Craig's record speaks for itself. Their shooting buddies are all AA/AAA shooters so their influence is obvious. The bonus is that they are really nice guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:49 am 
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I was shooting with D Sink, he introduced me to them at the Tildon Downing. I enjoyed the entire event as well as watching them shoot. Their records speak for themselves-no question about it.
I enjoyed meeting and shooting with Chris G and Henry did my adjustable butt pad. I'm not sure who everyone is on ShotgunWorld but I might have met you if you were there. My name is Stu.
I do appreciate all the NC folks opinions of course, my next shoot is the Pig Pickn. Only doing the 12 guage this time around.

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Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other. R.Reagan
Proud member of the super cheap choke club! Got my first straight with a $10 choke!


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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:55 am 
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bobski wrote:
:roll:


Really Bob? Did we forget someone?

Maybe let me see... huuum who could it be... it's on the tip of my tongue....oh damn....
It's right there... Borat? Nope!
Bart Simpson? Nope!

Bill Bob Tho...? Nope that's not it either!

BOBSKI that's it! Ye ay, I got it's our very own Bobski?

You go show'em Bob! {hs#


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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:15 am 
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Location: Northeast, Texas
oldbirdhntr said: "I second (third, fourth, or whatever) the Kirkman suggestions. Tommy is one grandfather than can kick anyone's tail on a good day and Craig's record speaks for itself. Their shooting buddies are all AA/AAA shooters so their influence is obvious. The bonus is that they are really nice guys."

I shot on the same field as Hayes Wauford last weekend at Dallas so I was able to observe his shooting style for 3 days. He stands up straight, is very smooth, and he looks like he is exerting no effort in breaking the targets. Craig also stands up straight and seems to exert very little effort.

I agree that if you have Tommy and Craig available to coach you, then you should take maximum advantage of their coaching skills.


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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:09 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Granite Capital of the World GA.
stu
I will say all that have been mentioned are good and all have different strong points. They do have different styles and it works for them. As close as you are to Craig he would be my choice. I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but shooting 100 straits is not as easy as go take some lessons. I also think you may be putting the cart before the horse as in you need to get a gun with tubes that fits. One of the biggest things that helped me when I started was, shooting with a AAA class shooter that was willing to help me at shoots. So if you can get on a good squad they will bring you along faster than any thing. Not trying to bring you down. BTW I shoot my 1st 100 strait in my 4th tournament, so it can happen fast, with the right help. Good luck and if I can help in some way let me know and tell craig I said hi.
Allen

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 Post subject: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 455
Location: La Florida
Stu-

All of these guys are World Champions that you are asking about. Some have been teaching a very long time and some have not in comparison. I tend to go with experience as that person has seen more and has had tough situations that he had to solve on his own and become a better instructor.

Also, shooting with a guy that is AA/AAA with good fundamentals every week, will be the best road to success as you will learn an incredible amount watching. Even if he is not a good teacher.

Craig & Tommy instructing you is by far the best choice in comparison to seeing someone else once a year. Go with that. I mean, look at what has been produced at that one field.....might as well be called the field of dreams.

Your personality and the instructors personality are important factors on wether you "gel" or not.

Find who you like and stick with them.


Last edited by CubaLibre on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:16 pm 
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allen and gang, please don't mis-udnerstand> I don't think if I take advanced lessons I will automatically start shooting 400's. I am a previous Navy Check Pilot and not only instructed Naval Aviators but gave the Commanding Officer his annual check ride, I know the value of training>meaning I don't think I will be shooting 400's without the advanced lessons. I can't move along without instruction, but the rest is up to me!
I ordered a DVD, I have a PFS coming late June, tubes to follow. Local level 1 instructor for a couple of months then Craig time. Now that all that is settled, where's the beer?!

Thanks, Craig> I hope for some regular time starting around Oct if you got some room!

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Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other. R.Reagan
Proud member of the super cheap choke club! Got my first straight with a $10 choke!


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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:26 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 7:55 pm
Posts: 2729
Location: Erie, PA
drsfmd wrote:
Eriehunter wrote:
Neither, although I'm sure they are good...

I don't particulary like the crouch, crawl into the gun leg drive etc....

long term a more upright posture may suit you better... give this a look.

http://www.chrisbatha.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi4NbyK9jOM (notice no crouch, no bent knees and no crawling the gunstock )


While Mr. Batha may be a good sporting clays instructor, he's never shot a single registered skeet target. It would be totally wasted money.


Seriously ??

It's a target in the air..... Do you really believe that skeet has "rules" unto itself that only a skeet coach can teach ?? Ever heard of Richard Faulds ?? He recently, within the last few weeks, shot the British open skeet with his sporter DT10 full/full choke. Ran 100 straight, won the shoot off... IIRC using the British equivalent of # 7 1/2 shot. he claims not to have shot any skeet within the last 8 years. He also shoots Bunker trap doubles at the Olympic level and is world champion FITASC... let's talk about George Digweed, Dan Carlisle or Kim Rhode too....

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FORUMS are ENTERTAINMENT. They don't teach shooting! Watch anonymous big talkers. You get a tip, not a system.


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 Post subject: Re: Paul Giambrone or Todd Bender? One of Both?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:12 pm 
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Their techniques would all differ from a proper skeet technique. When one of them wins a handful of NSSA world HOAs then you might be right...



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