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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:44 am 
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You will find many more listings by searching for "semi-auto shotgun, used" than by searching for "semi-automatic shotgun, used."

Very nice Winchester Model 1400 semi automatic 12 gauge with a dark mahogany stock. This item is not new but is in good condition. $300 starting bid. -- http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=303833971 -- Just cut the barrel.

BROWNING AUTO-5 LIGHT TWELVE SEMI-AUTO SHOTGUN 12GA.29.5" SOLID RIB BARREL CHOKED FULL WITH AN EXCELLENT BORE.THE METAL SURFACES RETAIN ABOUT 95-97% OF A LATER PROFESSIONALLY APPLIED BLUE FINISH THAT COVERS A FEW AREAS OF LIGHT PITTING.THE CHECKERED WALNUT STOCKS RATE ABOUT VERY GOOD AS WELL AND HAVE BEEN STRIPPED AND FINISHED IN A LOVELY SATIN OIL FINISH.THE STOCKS HAVE A FEW SMALL CRACKS AND LIGHT DINGS,THE BUTT IS EQUIPPED WITH THE ORIGINAL HARD RUBBER RECOIL PAD AND HAS A SMALL OVAL BRASS DISC MONOGRAMMED "HCD IV"IN BLOCK LETTERS.THE SHOTGUN APPEARS TO FUNCTION CORRECTLY AND INCLUDES A SIMPLE LEATHER SLING Buy Now $485-- http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=303154429 -- Just cut the barrel.

Used Remington 11-87P police model semi-auto 12 gauge shotgun. Has magazine extension and Choate pistol grip stock. The upper receiver is drilled and tapped for a scope/optic mount. POLICE MODEL. Has some scratches and finish wear, COMES WITH THE CASE IN PICTURE $530 current bid -- http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=304725177 -- The Remington 11-87P is used by many PDs and this gun is GTG for HD.

Benelli Super 90 shotgun, semi-automatic, 12 gauge magnum. Includes two choke tubes and wrench. Imported by H & K, older gun, excellent condition, 24" barrel, VR. Appears to have been used very little, a few small marks on the wood, metal is perfect. Buy Now $750 -- http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=304057750 -- This is a very fair price for a really nice Benelli M1. The tactical models are used by lots of U.S. SWAt teams and PDs. You could cut the barrel, and strip, stain the wood dark, and apply several coats of tung oil.



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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:19 pm 
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For me, I don't trust my life or the lives of my family on an auto. I know they work well, but I've seen an auto fail many more times than a pump. Also, you can just about buy two pumps for the price of one auto.

Just my thoughts, you'll have to decide for yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:38 pm 
uplanddan....I've probably seen more beginners (even some experts) short stroke a pump - especially under intense stress. The answer is, whichever weapon you choose, get some training and practice.


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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:55 am 
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wfb18, that bottom picture makes me want to get a wood stocked Benelli and cut it up into something awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:05 pm 
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hell of a deal on that A-5


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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:21 pm 
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wfb18 wrote:
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You will find many more listings by searching for "semi-auto shotgun, used" than by searching for "semi-automatic shotgun, used."

Very nice Winchester Model 1400 semi automatic 12 gauge with a dark mahogany stock. This item is not new but is in good condition. $300 starting bid. -- http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=303833971 -- Just cut the barrel.

BROWNING AUTO-5 LIGHT TWELVE SEMI-AUTO SHOTGUN 12GA.29.5" SOLID RIB BARREL CHOKED FULL WITH AN EXCELLENT BORE.THE METAL SURFACES RETAIN ABOUT 95-97% OF A LATER PROFESSIONALLY APPLIED BLUE FINISH THAT COVERS A FEW AREAS OF LIGHT PITTING.THE CHECKERED WALNUT STOCKS RATE ABOUT VERY GOOD AS WELL AND HAVE BEEN STRIPPED AND FINISHED IN A LOVELY SATIN OIL FINISH.THE STOCKS HAVE A FEW SMALL CRACKS AND LIGHT DINGS,THE BUTT IS EQUIPPED WITH THE ORIGINAL HARD RUBBER RECOIL PAD AND HAS A SMALL OVAL BRASS DISC MONOGRAMMED "HCD IV"IN BLOCK LETTERS.THE SHOTGUN APPEARS TO FUNCTION CORRECTLY AND INCLUDES A SIMPLE LEATHER SLING Buy Now $485-- http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=303154429 -- Just cut the barrel.

Used Remington 11-87P police model semi-auto 12 gauge shotgun. Has magazine extension and Choate pistol grip stock. The upper receiver is drilled and tapped for a scope/optic mount. POLICE MODEL. Has some scratches and finish wear, COMES WITH THE CASE IN PICTURE $530 current bid -- http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=304725177 -- The Remington 11-87P is used by many PDs and this gun is GTG for HD.

Benelli Super 90 shotgun, semi-automatic, 12 gauge magnum. Includes two choke tubes and wrench. Imported by H & K, older gun, excellent condition, 24" barrel, VR. Appears to have been used very little, a few small marks on the wood, metal is perfect. Buy Now $750 -- http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=304057750 -- This is a very fair price for a really nice Benelli M1. The tactical models are used by lots of U.S. SWAt teams and PDs. You could cut the barrel, and strip, stain the wood dark, and apply several coats of tung oil.



Would all of those be excellent home defense shotguns, reliability-wise? There was just an auction for a 1400 that ended where nobody would even bid 150 dollars for it, which I find pretty shocking considering how much I've seen new semi-autos going for. The idea of a semi-auto for home defense worries me a little because I really do like the simplicity of a pump, but the possibility of short-stroking a pump does equalize things somewhat between the two. Stepping into the world of USED semi-autos seems to complicate the reliability equation for me, but it's very possible (likely?) I'm over-thinking things here.


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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:39 pm 
I'm not knocking them at all, but I would not pay $400 to $800 for a used semi-auto - unless I just wanted to own one of the particular models.

The Mossberg 930 SPX is an excellent semi-auto and can be found for less than $700 new. The pumps are less expensive and you can get used Wingmasters or new guns in a multitude of choices for less than $300.


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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:15 pm 
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In the long run, spotch, the reliablity of your guns is going to depend just as much on you as on their manufacturers. You probably are unfamiliar with shotguns and you wish to compensate by buying a gun of respected quality and excellent reputation. That's good, but you still ought to learn how to do basic repairs on your gun. For example, the Charles Daly guns have some weak cast parts that need to be replaced. You could replace those parts (or pay to have them replaced), and then that Charles Daly gun is more reliable. And for example, the Remington 1100... oh, wait, let's not go there. As for the Winchester 1400...

Jambo wrote:
RemingtonII wrote:
How much worse than an 1100 could it be?

From a gunsmith's standpoint, alot worse. But that's good for me. When some guy brings [a 1400] in, says he can [sic, cannot] open it all the way, I know exactly what's wrong with it. The firing pin shot out the back of the bolt carrier and jammed the gun up. Well, that's a new firing pin that I buy for wholesale and sell for retail, plus the time it takes to install it (not very long)... The Winchester throws firing pins because of the way that they are held in place. The firing [pin] and the slide arm bridge hold each other in place. The only way to fix it is to drill a hole thru the slide arm bridge, into the bolt carrier and drive a roll pin into the hole.

So if you bought a 1400, you should change out the firing pin kit and have a spare to make it more reliable, or have Jambo's repair done, to make it even more reliable. To most people, that's still not reliable enough for a HD gun. That is why I showed you a few examples of affordable semi-automatics. The Remington 11-87 Police is GTG, while everyone would know that you tried to save $200-$300 by chopping one of the hunting shotguns into a HD shotgun.

Again, the great majority of people specifically prefer a pump shotgun for HD, for the sake of reliablity. IMO, they may not be aware of just how many LE and military shotgunners rely on the Remington 11-87, the Winchester SX2 Practical/FN SLP, and the Benelli M2 and M4. But in the long run, the reliablity of any gun that you own is going to depend on your knowledge of its known problems, your corrections of those problems when possible, and your maintenance of your gun. Good luck, sir.

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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:54 am 
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Thanks for the detailed reply! Yeah the police 11-87 seems like an excellent idea I'd never thought of. I'm still trying to consider the option of 870 and low recoil ammo vs a semi auto with regular shells (as far as recoil reduction goes), so this conversation is good for helping to fully cover one of those bases.


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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:26 pm 
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The point I think we haven't really touched on enough here is that there is no weapon system that will make you deadlier or more protected simply because you own it. You still need to practice whether you buy a $1600 Benelli M1014 or a $200 Maverick 88. To answer your original question, the best HD gun for a novice is one that you're comfortable and familiar with. As far as function goes, I think the pump is slightly more difficult to become truly proficient with than an autoloader and will beat you up a little harder but maintaining an auto is much more complicated for a beginner. I was into shotguns for probably four years before I bought my first autoloader and I was so convinced for a while that once I opened it up, it would be like trying to read a book in another language. It wasn't that much of a ordeal to learn but like I said, they're much higher maintainence than a pump.

The Benelli Nova Tactical is a great gun that no one has mentioned. I had one for seven years, shot it a ton and never had any issue with reliability. Sold it because it was big and heavy and I'm 5' 9'' and 150. If you're a big, tall guy then the Nova Tactical or Super Nova may be a weapon to consider. If you're about the same size as me, I'd look elsewhere. The 500 and 870 platforms are significantly slimmer, lighter weapons. Bottom line; buy whatever is most appealing to you and train with it. Fine motor skills break down under stress so shooting it once and forgetting about in the back of your closet is not good enough. A lot of people buy weapons for HD but really are only buying themselves piece of mind, not something they intend to learn to use or understand. That's fine because the vast majority of them will never need them but they're depriving themselves of a very rewarding hobby. Simply put, shooting is fun and the better you get at it the more fun it becomes.

All of the shotguns we've mentioned on this thread are reliable weapons so rest assured that whether you buy a Mossberg, Remington, Benelli, whatever they're going to work. The rest is up to you.

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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:03 pm 
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Misery556 wrote:
The point I think we haven't really touched on enough here is that there is no weapon system that will make you deadlier or more protected simply because you own it. You still need to practice whether you buy a $1600 Benelli M1014 or a $200 Maverick 88. To answer your original question, the best HD gun for a novice is one that you're comfortable and familiar with. As far as function goes, I think the pump is slightly more difficult to become truly proficient with than an autoloader and will beat you up a little harder but maintaining an auto is much more complicated for a beginner. I was into shotguns for probably four years before I bought my first autoloader and I was so convinced for a while that once I opened it up, it would be like trying to read a book in another language. It wasn't that much of a ordeal to learn but like I said, they're much higher maintainence than a pump.

The Benelli Nova Tactical is a great gun that no one has mentioned. I had one for seven years, shot it a ton and never had any issue with reliability. Sold it because it was big and heavy and I'm 5' 9'' and 150. If you're a big, tall guy then the Nova Tactical or Super Nova may be a weapon to consider. If you're about the same size as me, I'd look elsewhere. The 500 and 870 platforms are significantly slimmer, lighter weapons. Bottom line; buy whatever is most appealing to you and train with it. Fine motor skills break down under stress so shooting it once and forgetting about in the back of your closet is not good enough. A lot of people buy weapons for HD but really are only buying themselves piece of mind, not something they intend to learn to use or understand. That's fine because the vast majority of them will never need them but they're depriving themselves of a very rewarding hobby. Simply put, shooting is fun and the better you get at it the more fun it becomes.

All of the shotguns we've mentioned on this thread are reliable weapons so rest assured that whether you buy a Mossberg, Remington, Benelli, whatever they're going to work. The rest is up to you.


I enjoyed this post.

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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:18 pm 
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Sorry to bring this post back, but I've thought of another gun to ask about:

I was at the Browning website looking at their BSP pump action guns, and the only one with a reasonably short barrel is the BPS micro (20ga, 22" barrel).

Is this a decent choice as well?

Thanks again,
Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:17 pm 
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I have question for all you semi auto bad mothers.. What is riding on your belt? Is it a revolver? Semi autos shotguns have been around about as long as the beloved 1911. There were many who didn't trust a 1911 either. 38s rode police belts way too long. Some still do. That being said I love my 870 but, I am an old fart and get to use whatever I want.


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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:04 pm 
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i like the savage hd 12 ga. 18 or 20 in. barrel real good hd gun & you can hunt with it to low price about 200-300 range


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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Get a mossberg or maverick 20 gauge with a vent rib and shorten the barrel to 18.5 inches. If you can find your way to a youth model, that`s a little better because the shorter stock is handy.
Learn how to use it If you later move up to bigger or better or conspicuous consumption, this will always serve as a backup or for some other family member.

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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:16 am 
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I have a 1968 20 ga Mossberg 500 for HD. It's much easier for my wife to handle as she is a very small person and it can do the job if need be. It's true that the ammo variety is not what it should be compared to the 12 ga but there are adequate choices. As mentioned above, you can move up to a 12 as you gain confidence and experience and have the 20 for a spare.

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Last edited by Roseman on Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:17 am 
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Location: Central california
I have a 1975 Ithaca (5 shot version) that stays at my office and the 8 shot 2012 production that stays at my home.

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On my home version I have a velcro side saddle with extra buck and a 5 dollar butt cuff for slugs. Though bottom fed you can do a changeover very quickly by pulling the slide back just until you feel it dump the chambered round into your hand, then you push the new round up and slide it forward to chamber...very easy to do.

My Pump HD choices would be:
1. Ithaca
2. Rem 870
3. Benelli Super Nova


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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:12 pm 
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Only the Vice President uses a double barrel for HP

Suggest the Benneli M4

The Older Rem 870 works good with Deer Barrel sights smooth bore

Ithaca 37 Deer Slayer with the 20" slug barrel smooth bore

Browning A5 older model prefer Belgium Made Buck Special

All these are excellent shotguns HD and for Big Game Hunting


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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:18 am 
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If budget isn't a constraint, the best shotgun for home defense is the KSG, without question.

If you're not willing to shell out that much money, I'd recommend a Mossberg 500 pistol grip, with one of the extended mag tubes.

Long guns are not preferable for close quarters. They're difficult to wield and swing. Pistol grips bite more, but they're easier to manage in sub-optimal situations (like crouched, behind objects, odd angles, navigating stairs and doorways, etc).

The KSG is preferable because of the capacity and it's ability to eat mini slugs. The 500 and the 870 will eat mini slugs but with significant modification which degrades the gun for resale.

With mini slugs, my KSG will hold 22+1. 23 rounds of 380 grain slugs at 1250 f/s in a package that's in a small, bullpup package with a red dot on top and a green laser on the bottom. Anything less than 10 yards the gun is absolutely devastating.

Again, if you won't spend the scratch for a KSG, then a 500 pistol grip with door breacher muzzle break is the next best option.


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 Post subject: Re: Best HD shotgun for a novice
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:19 pm 
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Centurion wrote:
If budget isn't a constraint, the best shotgun for home defense is the KSG, without question.

If you're not willing to shell out that much money, I'd recommend a Mossberg 500 pistol grip, with one of the extended mag tubes.

Long guns are not preferable for close quarters. They're difficult to wield and swing. Pistol grips bite more, but they're easier to manage in sub-optimal situations (like crouched, behind objects, odd angles, navigating stairs and doorways, etc).

The KSG is preferable because of the capacity and it's ability to eat mini slugs. The 500 and the 870 will eat mini slugs but with significant modification which degrades the gun for resale.

With mini slugs, my KSG will hold 22+1. 23 rounds of 380 grain slugs at 1250 f/s in a package that's in a small, bullpup package with a red dot on top and a green laser on the bottom. Anything less than 10 yards the gun is absolutely devastating.

Again, if you won't spend the scratch for a KSG, then a 500 pistol grip with door breacher muzzle break is the next best option.


Are you recommending a pistol grip ONLY shotgun as a home defense weapon? Or are you recommending a shotgun with a pistol grip stock?

Just curious....



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