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 Post subject: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:40 pm 
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Location: Austin, Texas
OK, bought one at a gunshow. Price was really too good to pass up. Love to have a Benelli, but that's another story.

Anyway, made a mental list of upgrades I wanted.

Got and installed a Remington 870 pistol grip full-length stock. Thanks Fleabay!

Ordered a Mesa Tactical 6 round side saddle. Was thinking about the full-sized one (8 round), but if I need more than 6 after I emptied the gun, I would be in deep chacha! Thanks Botach!

Ordered a Blackhawk Shotgun case from Botach too.

Next up is a tactical sling. When I had my AR, I had a two point sling. Can't remember who made it. Worked out nice when I was on patrol and when I transistioned to the pistol.

SO, what are your suggestions???

As for a flashlight, not going to need one at present, as my Glock will have one soon enough for the nighttime noises.

Anything else?

Jeff :D



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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:40 pm 
Welcome to the Basement tazbigdog.... {hs#

In my opinion, everything you have done so far is not as important as a weapon light. Without it, you have a day gun - pretty much useless at night. Now if your shotgun is not for home defense then I guess you are okay.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:43 am 
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I agree with Petecamp, a light should be number 1 priority. I used a Streamlight Polytac LED in a scope ring with a Streamlight magazine mount, the whole setup cost me about $50. You mentioned a light for your Glock, it should fit on that mount, I used an Insight X2L for a while too.

Looks like the mount went up, it was $12 when I bought it a couple years ago.
http://www.amazon.com/Streamlight%C2%AE ... B001G61K74

Usually, less is better so a good light, sidesaddle and sling/sling mount is all you need in my opinion.
My 870 tactical
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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:02 am 
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Thanks guys. Not going to use the shotgun in the night time if I can help it. Way too many occupants in the house. I love shooting tactical courses and wanted to build a shotgun for that. Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:39 am 
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tazbigdog wrote:
Not going to use the shotgun in the night time if I can help it. Way too many occupants in the house. I love shooting tactical courses and wanted to build a shotgun for that. Jeff

Lights are for target ID, which is absolutely critical if you have family/friends about.

Other possible upgrades:
replace OEM thimble-thin mag follower
Vang Comp Big Dome safety, very convenient for classes and matches where you must manipulate safety
Depending on PG stock you added, shorten LOP for quicker shouldering
XS big dot front sight or ghost rings

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:38 am 
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I have had a Streamlight on mine, and have taken it off and put it on again so many times, I now leave it off. I shot the gun so much at least a 100 rounds a week, the light is a bother. Also it does not make any sence to use one at night. Anyone that I would have to shoot with a shotgun would be close enough to see the "whites" of there eyes, even at night, and things would have to be soo bad that it would not matter who was in front or behind them. When that person was done with me, they would be next.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:24 pm 
forehire wrote:
I have had a Streamlight on mine, and have taken it off and put it on again so many times, I now leave it off. I shot the gun so much at least a 100 rounds a week, the light is a bother. Also it does not make any sence to use one at night. Anyone that I would have to shoot with a shotgun would be close enough to see the "whites" of there eyes, even at night, and things would have to be soo bad that it would not matter who was in front or behind them. When that person was done with me, they would be next.

Perhaps I should gently point out that one of the four premier safety rules of any kind of shooting is to know what (or who) your target is. It makes all the sense in the world to correctly use a light defensively at night because it may keep them from sticking the needle in you after you just fire away in the dark and kill someone who didn't need killing. That is why we make such a big deal about them on here. :wink:

If you don't want to use one, that is fine....it's your hide on the line.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:19 am 
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PeteCamp wrote:
forehire wrote:
I have had a Streamlight on mine, and have taken it off and put it on again so many times, I now leave it off. I shot the gun so much at least a 100 rounds a week, the light is a bother. Also it does not make any sence to use one at night. Anyone that I would have to shoot with a shotgun would be close enough to see the "whites" of there eyes, even at night, and things would have to be soo bad that it would not matter who was in front or behind them. When that person was done with me, they would be next.

Perhaps I should gently point out that one of the four premier safety rules of any kind of shooting is to know what (or who) your target is. It makes all the sense in the world to correctly use a light defensively at night because it may keep them from sticking the needle in you after you just fire away in the dark and kill someone who didn't need killing. That is why we make such a big deal about them on here. :wink:

If you don't want to use one, that is fine....it's your hide on the line.


to add on to this:

On some of the tac lights they actually have a strobe feature that makes it near impossible to see when looking directly at it in the dark.

Lights aren't that bother some if you mount them in the right place

and if you don't have a light i would suggest not using it at home (poor little buster doesnt need to be shot just cause someone thought his house was getting robbed).


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:22 am 
Quote:
The Holy Grail of Shooting
The 1st Law - The Gun Is Always Loaded!
The 2nd Law - Never Point The Gun At Something You Are Not Prepared To Destroy!
The 3rd Law - Always Be Sure Of Your Target And What Is Behind It!
The 4th Law - Keep Your Finger Off The Trigger Until Your Sights Are On The Target!

I know everyone has seen these, but thought they might be beneficial here so I don't confuse the issue. The issue of lights on defense weapons, used correctly, is valid and prevents breaking the third law of gun safety.

For the OP: On strobes. I think the jury is still out. Strobes can disorient in the dark. However many ask a valid question. If you see a bad guy who is obviously not in your home to collect for the Girl Scouts, why disorient him? Now that he is identified, change your position slightly, and keep him covered. Besides, it is reasoned, disorientation by the strobe can work both ways. I've not used a strobe, so your guess is as good as mine if disorientation is a problem.

I cannot decide for you, but this has been my experience over quite a few decades. A handgun with night sights is easily manipulated with a light in the offhand, although there are quite a few techniques to be mastered. I have a handgun light/laser (M6X) which I have actually had to use (Glock 21) and it worked well - the laser, not so much the light. Most of the time, it is not mounted because of the extra weight and the necessity of pointing the muzzle at a target I'm trying to identify.

The shotgun mounted light has the same problem as I've just described, but because of the handling issue and lack of a free hand, mounting the light on the weapon is necessary. I don't like sweeping an innocent with a loaded shotgun, but, next to a rifle, the shotgun is the most powerful weapon you have. The handgun trails a distant third. (watch the wounding mechanism video I posted above) I want my shotgun, if needed in the dark, to be as effective as it can be. The odds are pretty good that any trouble will occur in the dark. Be prepared accordingly. Just some thoughts for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:38 am 
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RE: Pete's comments about stobes. I can take or leave them. They are definitely disorienting in the dark and do not hinder the user. That being said - a 120+ lumen light shining directly in your face at night is also very disorienting. I have one on my handheld light and when I went through a low light class I would find myself under stress varying between hitting the strobe and hitting the full power light (not always on purpose). Both worked great but my subjects seemed a little more off balance and unsure when I was using the strobe. It wasn't a big enough difference to make me want to replace all my flashlights with strobes. As far as the virtues of disorienting the subject: I want every edge I can have and the more disoriented the bad guy is the better I like it. If upon lighting him up I've decided he doesn't need shooting I still want to keep him off balance until he can be wrapped up. If he needs shooting then strobe or steady light isn't going to make much difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:18 pm 
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GDubya wrote:
tazbigdog wrote:
Not going to use the shotgun in the night time if I can help it. Way too many occupants in the house. I love shooting tactical courses and wanted to build a shotgun for that. Jeff

Lights are for target ID, which is absolutely critical if you have family/friends about.

Other possible upgrades:
replace OEM thimble-thin mag follower
Vang Comp Big Dome safety, very convenient for classes and matches where you must manipulate safety
Depending on PG stock you added, shorten LOP for quicker shouldering
XS big dot front sight or ghost rings


Thanks for the comments! I have a G22 and will be putting a light on it. I also have a Surefire 6P that I have used with handgun in the past. My main HD firearm is the handgun. The shotgun is a tactical build that I'll use at the range.

For the possible add-ons:
1. Which follower do you recommend?
2. I'm used to the safety on it now. I might get an oversized head (for glove work)
3. Pistol grip stock was spot on for length and fits me great!
4. Ahhhh, sights...looking at a LPA Ghost ring sight (rear) and a florescent sight for the front.

Thanks!

Jeff

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 Post subject: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:14 am 
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I dont have a light on any of my guns yet but I fully intend to get one ASAP. I had wanted one for target identification, but was never really sold on one past that advantage.

Fortunately at my ccdw class a couple weeks ago our instructor shut off all the lights and hit those of us willing with the light he had on his carry glock. Even without the strobe, once he hit you with it, it was very disorienting for I'd say a solid few seconds. Those seconds could be very advantageous in a confrontation in my opinion.

I'm dying to get one on my mossberg 500, once I can find a good suitable mount and light for a reasonable price.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:34 am 
sjohnny's comments made me think about what I posted previously about strobes. I should qualify this by saying I've never used a light with a strobe. However, I have used lights and been trained in the use of lights in low light level situations. I was trained, and found it to be true by experience, that the light is only on long enough to identify a potential target - a second or two at most. I'm wondering if that short a length of time is really enough to benefit from the strobes ability to cause disorientation.

I've seen ads for lights with strobes and they imply the light is on far longer than sound tactics would dictate. Anytime you reveal your position you should immediately change position. Failing to do so invites disaster. Has anyone actually worked force on force with strobes who can say that they actually do what is intended?


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:48 am 
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I've worked force on force with strobes. We were working the lights on and off and moving around but once we had identified a threat and he had dropped his gun and put up his hands we kept the light constant on in his face and gave him orders to come toward us so we could hook him up (I realize this is a different scenario than a lone person confronting someone in their home would experience). There was a noticeable difference in the coordination of the individuals hit with the normal light and those hit with the strobe. It wasn't enough to make me want to get rid of my non-strobe lights but it was noticeable.
In situations where we were shining the light quickly, moving, shining the light, identifying the target, moving and shooting - the lights weren't on long enough to make any difference whether it was a strobe or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:56 pm 
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Just playing devil's advocate here, but with a light mounted on the gun how do you avoid violating the second law of gun safety (Never point the gun at anything you're not willing to destroy)?

The scenario I envision is where the intruder turns out to be a family member.

-Stan-


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:58 pm 
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Moe,

You raise a valid point however look at the inverse of what you said - without the light to identify the threat you'd be pointing a shotgun at the person. You'd be violating the 2d law and in that sense, the flashlight is irrelevant.

In daylight you can ID your target presumably rather easily. At night it's different, whether it's a pistol or a long gun. You'd be deemed irresponsible if you just pulled the trigger at something without first determining friend or foe.

Remember, you are not walking around with the light on all the time. You are identifying your target and then moving on the the shoot or no shoot scenario. See a movement, light goes on. You ID the perceived threat and then decide what to do. Light goes off if there's no threat.

There are a number of ways for this to play out but you need to make sure what you're shooting is really a perp instead of a family member or house guest getting up to go tinkle or glass of water.

A light is how you do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:22 am 
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tazbigdog wrote:
GDubya wrote:
tazbigdog wrote:
Not going to use the shotgun in the night time if I can help it. Way too many occupants in the house. I love shooting tactical courses and wanted to build a shotgun for that. Jeff

Lights are for target ID, which is absolutely critical if you have family/friends about.

Other possible upgrades:
replace OEM thimble-thin mag follower
Vang Comp Big Dome safety, very convenient for classes and matches where you must manipulate safety
Depending on PG stock you added, shorten LOP for quicker shouldering
XS big dot front sight or ghost rings


Thanks for the comments! I have a G22 and will be putting a light on it. I also have a Surefire 6P that I have used with handgun in the past. My main HD firearm is the handgun. The shotgun is a tactical build that I'll use at the range.

For the possible add-ons:
1. Which follower do you recommend?
2. I'm used to the safety on it now. I might get an oversized head (for glove work)
3. Pistol grip stock was spot on for length and fits me great!
4. Ahhhh, sights...looking at a LPA Ghost ring sight (rear) and a florescent sight for the front.

Thanks!

Jeff


Anyone have any recommendations for #1 (and spring) and #4 (best price)?

Jeff :)

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:12 pm 
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Gun Lights are a great gimmick, good money maker and they look neat. Tactically I'd much rather rely on my night vision and stealth than light myself up for potential adversaries.


...run silent, run deep


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:29 am 
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Dirtyeddie wrote:
Gun Lights are a great gimmick, good money maker and they look neat. Tactically I'd much rather rely on my night vision and stealth than light myself up for potential adversaries.


...run silent, run deep


Far out. Good luck with that.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express Tactical Build
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:15 pm 
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It's worked perfectly over 20 years now professionally... I must be really, super, double secret lucky...




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