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 Post subject: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:43 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:22 am
Posts: 8
Location: Devon, UK
Just purchased a Victor Sarasqueta; no information came with the gun & I would be interested to know the model number, original cost etc... Can anyone help?

IDs:
Forestock: 218565
Action: 12-70 218563
Barrel: Ro1 218563 1310 900kgs

Looking at the sticky guide, does the "Ro1" signify manufactured in 1973?

The stamps on the gun:
Image

Other images:
Image
Image
Image
Image




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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:45 pm 
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Congratulations on a nice looking gun and Victor never made any junk. At one time he was the king of Spain's gun maker and welcome {hs# .

Yup, 1973; 12/70=12 ga 2 3/4"; 1310 gmos is the weight of the barrels in grams. I'd say the gun probably weighs 6 1/2 - 6 3/4 lb. Do yourself a favor and the gun; 1 or 1 1/16 oz loads pattern real nice in a 12. Don't know the model, but someone will. :D

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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:35 pm
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Location: Eastern Virginia
Congratulations on a very handsome gun. I'm curious about the screw on the lump. Does this adjust the lump and keep it on face so you don't have to replace the hinge pin?


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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:22 pm 
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The screw holds the ejectors in. Forgot to add, the 900kg is the proof or approx. 10,500 maximum service pressure, so don't be shooting 3 3/4 dram eq. loads.

I like about a 3 dram 1 oz. load for the first barrel. It moves at about 1235 fps and the 1 1/8 oz 3 1/4 dram loads moves at about the same speed. Spanish game guns are built light after the English tradition of mostly 1 1/8 oz loads.

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over the hill and picking up speed.

"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people...to disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."..
founding father George Mason.


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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:22 am
Posts: 8
Location: Devon, UK
Many thanks for taking the time to reply.

Any ideas as to how can I establish the model name/number - google searches have so far failed to produce any catalog/model info.

Ref the 900kg proof, my usual cartridges are Eley Pigeon 61/2shot 1 1/16oz. I'm struggling to establish the dram load equivalent of these cartridges. Would it be advisable to purchase some 1oz cartridges?


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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:52 am 
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Cutty Dyer wrote:
Many thanks for taking the time to reply.

Any ideas as to how can I establish the model name/number - google searches have so far failed to produce any catalog/model info.

Ref the 900kg proof, my usual cartridges are Eley Pigeon 61/2shot 1 1/16oz. I'm struggling to establish the dram load equivalent of these cartridges. Would it be advisable to purchase some 1oz cartridges?


The pictures could be a little sharper :-(

Based on what I think I can see in the photos, it looks to me to be a model 6.

Spanish shotgun aren't all light game guns. Very generally speaking, Spanish shotguns fall somewhere in a range of light game gun (think 'carried much, shot little'), medium game guns (think 'carried little, shot much'), and competition game gun (think 'live pigeon guns, made to be fired a hundred thousand times a year').

If you can tell me the total weight of your gun and whether it has a third lock up, I can make a guess at where in that range your gun falls.

Ignore the '900kgs' proof. That's just the proof standard to which the gun was tested and cannot be translated to a working pressure. Very generally speaking, if you stick to loads of 1 and 1/4 ounce of shot or less, muzzle velocities of 1200 fps or less, and use only lead shot, the gun should last long enough for your son to pass it on to his son.

Very nice gun indeed, and of a quality that is rare today.

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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:22 am
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Location: Devon, UK
Kyrie wrote:
The pictures could be a little sharper :-(

If you can tell me the total weight of your gun and whether it has a third lock up, I can make a guess at where in that range your gun falls.


Over the weekend I hope to update the images with those of a higher resolution + weigh the gun. Where (& what) is the third lock up?


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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:26 am 
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PM sent.

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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:22 am
Posts: 8
Location: Devon, UK
Kyrie wrote:
PM sent.


Thanks for the pm.

As you can see from the images below, no 3rd lock.
From the newly posted pics can you confirm it is a model 6?

Image
Image
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:07 am 
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Cutty Dyer wrote:
As you can see from the images below, no 3rd lock.
From the newly posted pics can you confirm it is a model 6?


I can confirm the engraving pattern is the same engraving pattern as shown on the model 6 in a catalog dated 1977.

The engraving pattern, in the absence of any model number/name marked on the gun, is the way people tend to judge model. The problem with this is the gun maker will use whatever pattern the buyer wants on the gun, so it's possible to have an engraving pattern on a gun that isn't the engraving pattern shown in the catalog for that model of gun.

The main point here is, I think, that you have a very, vergy nice shotgun - regardless of whatever model it may be :D

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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:46 pm
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Location: dothan, al
A VERY nice V.S.! Looks like a 6E to me!

Congrats!


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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:25 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:31 pm
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Location: Lodi, CA
I like this gun! As to the comment "Victor never made any junk..." ...well, I am not so sure.


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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:04 pm 
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David Dabaco wrote:
I like this gun! As to the comment "Victor never made any junk..." ...well, I am not so sure.



"never"; is a strong word, but please expound. Do you have a model in mind?


GB90; doesn't the 6E have a little engraving on the barrels.

_________________
over the hill and picking up speed.

"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people...to disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."..
founding father George Mason.


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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:46 pm
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Location: dothan, al
Not all 6Es had engraving on the barrels... But you have to remember that it was very common for makers, over the years, to change small details pertaining to a certain model.... On the 6e, for example, the action shaping varied, the shape of drop points varied, the layout of the checkering varied, the engraving also slightly changed, as did the finish on both the wood and metal.... The overall quality varied as well (even within the same model).


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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:46 pm
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Location: dothan, al
Victor Sarasqueta is one of my favorite makers but not all of their guns were what I call "high quality".... They, like all of the Spanish makers, built "price point" guns that were certainly not up to his "normal" standard.


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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:59 pm
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Location: Flathead Valley, MT
Kyrie wrote:
Ignore the '900kgs' proof. That's just the proof standard to which the gun was tested and cannot be translated to a working pressure. Very generally speaking, if you stick to loads of 1 and 1/4 ounce of shot or less, muzzle velocities of 1200 fps or less, and use only lead shot, the gun should last long enough for your son to pass it on to his son.

Very nice gun indeed, and of a quality that is rare today.


+1 on all of that, especially the last. {hs#

I like to use Greener's rule of 96: Divide the weight of the gun in ounces by 96 and don't use a shot weight in ounces heavier than the quotient you just derived (at around 1200 fps). If your gun weighs 6 lbs, don't shoot anything over 1 oz; 6-3/4 lbs, no more than 1-1/8 oz.

You can do the reverse math to see how heavy a gun you need to shoot a certain load. For example, if you want to shoot one of those 1-7/8 oz 10 ga. magnum loads, you'll need one of Victor's 11 lb 4 oz Zephyrs. 8)

Remember, it's a rule of thumb, not of law. Enjoy!

MD

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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 1:46 pm
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Location: Western Oregon
I believe I own this same gun. It is a really nice Spanish double BTW.

Mine is 14 3/4 LOP to checkered butt, 28 inch barrels, with ejectors, articulated front triggers, no third fastener, gas ejection ports, disc strikers, etc.

I always thought, and I bought the gun, believing it was a model 203E, it was my understanding that the fences are carved/engraved differently in the 6E. It will be interesting to learn more here.


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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:46 pm
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Location: dothan, al
Illaheman wrote:
I believe I own this same gun. It is a really nice Spanish double BTW.

Mine is 14 3/4 LOP to checkered butt, 28 inch barrels, with ejectors, articulated front triggers, no third fastener, gas ejection ports, disc strikers, etc.

I always thought, and I bought the gun, believing it was a model 203E, it was my understanding that the fences are carved/engraved differently in the 6E. It will be interesting to learn more here.



I've always wondered about the "other" Sarasqueta models.... like the 203, 206, 211, 212 etc....

Were they meant for the Euro market? It seems most of them are still on the other side of the pond while most of the V.S. guns here in the states are designated 4E,6E,7E,8E, etc.... or at least so it seems to me. Any thoughts on this?


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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:26 pm 
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I believe they are just different models, that's all. Each with slightly different characteristics. This sure looks like a 6E, but without the third lockup. As we have all seen, there may well be variations within a model designation.

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 Post subject: Re: My 1st Spanish - Victor Sarasqueta
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:06 pm 
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gunbroker90 wrote:
I've always wondered about the "other" Sarasqueta models.... like the 203, 206, 211, 212 etc....

Were they meant for the Euro market? It seems most of them are still on the other side of the pond while most of the V.S. guns here in the states are designated 4E,6E,7E,8E, etc.... or at least so it seems to me. Any thoughts on this?


It's a price point issue. The VS models like the 4, 5, and 6 were lower price point models and found buyers here in the US because the price points at which they sold were competitive with US shotguns. The models Hispania series of guns (the 206, 212, 213, etc) were high price point guns, selling at three and four times as much as the models 4, 5, and 6. Not many buyers here in the US for shotguns that were so expensive.



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