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 Post subject: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:15 pm 
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Looking to upgrade my gun to a top-of-the-line competition gun for American Skeet.

Of the Krieghoff K-80 Pro-Skeet, Perazzi MX-2000, and Kolar Max Skt, what do you have to say? Pros, cons, personal experience, reputations?




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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:51 am 
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skeettrap927 wrote:
Looking to upgrade my gun to a top-of-the-line competition gun for American Skeet.

Of the Krieghoff K-80 Pro-Skeet, Perazzi MX-2000, and Kolar Max Skt, what do you have to say? Pros, cons, personal experience, reputations?



All depends on what you are coming out of, and your shooting form.

Max for me has the rib too high at the muzzle, and I disconnect with the barrel.

Same goes for an MX-10 type rib, until I have an extra notch cut into the rib ends so I can get the rib set up so the gun shoots just a hair short of 80/20 at 19 yards.


P and Kolar guns have a more sporting style distribution weight style to them, and until you start doing some weighting to get the weight feel from end to end, the weight is going going to feel like is between your hands instead. The positive on these guns, you can order the gun with a production stock that actual fits you.

K-80 pro, works best for me since I set them up to shoot high, the front of the rib is low to the front of the barrel so I don't disconnect from the muzzle, and since the weight feel of the gun is already muzzle to butt pad over all (what some have described as swinging a barn door), not much modding needed on final fit/ after actual having a stock made for the gun since the factory production stock fits no one.

Next comes barrel regulation for skeet distances (19 yard average break distances), with Both the K gun using a hanger system for the bottom barrel to regulate the bottom barrel to the top barrel, while the P gun comes with a fixed mid rib (read if you have to change the barrel regulations, the P gun needs to be sent back to the factory, or you get into having custom chokes make to regulate it that way instead.

All three are over built, but only the K's come with mech triggers. The K-80 trigger nudges out the Max trigger. but the P is more crisp than the two. The two K's come with adjustable regulation barrel hanger systems that you can swap out if needed, while the P gun does not.


Last edited by Dano523 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:04 am 
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skeettrap927 wrote:
Looking to upgrade my gun to a top-of-the-line competition gun for American Skeet.

Of the Krieghoff K-80 Pro-Skeet, Perazzi MX-2000, and Kolar Max Skt, what do you have to say? Pros, cons, personal experience, reputations?


Wanting to spend that kind of money you ought to give each a good test drive and see what works for you.

Check out Paxton's web site http://www.paxtonarms.com/PreOwned.htm
and see if he has something that interests you.For a fee he'll ship a used gun for a test drive.

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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:49 am 
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I don`t think Paxton likes P/guns much... maybe some used stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:16 am 
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I am a kolar fan, but it will depend on you and the feel you like. It also has a lot to do with what you get use to. I like the kolar because of service and I can change any part in the gun, not that I have needed to. But I also like to that the gun apart to clean it.
Allen

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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:48 pm 
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Dano523 wrote:
but only the K's come with mech triggers.


Kolars have always had mechanical triggers.

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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:37 pm 
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I am of the opinion that the K-80 is the best made of the three.

I will share the FACT that the K-80 holds its value the best. Kolar resale values are particularly horrible.

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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:47 pm 
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K-80 with Kolar AAA tubes - have shot 15,000 to 20,000 rounds per year (AAAx4), got a (free) check-up/tune-up every year at the World, never had the slightest problem or issue. That works for me because when I'm shooting registered I want to think about targets, not guns.


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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:27 pm 
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These guns all feel very different, particularly the K-80 vs the Kolars and Perazzi. There is no way that what I prefer in handling dynmics will have any certain connection to what you will like in handling dynamics.

Therefore, you need to shoot the guns and see which one suits you. They are all high quality competition grade guns.

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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:30 pm 
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Skeet_Man wrote:
Dano523 wrote:
but only the K's come with mech triggers.


Kolars have always had mechanical triggers.


That what I said, hence why i stated K's (as in plural), meaning both the Krieghoff and the Kolar, while the Perazzi has an inertia trigger reset for the second barrel.


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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:32 pm 
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The biggest thing that worries me with the Krieghoff is that if something breaks, I'm screwed. I have a backup trigger for my kolar now (for piece of mind more than anything else), and also carry spare parts for most of what could break, and anything I don't have could be overnighted to me and I could put in myself.

With the Krieghoff, if something breaks, you're basically SOL. I have a local smith that can work on them, and Krieghoff is only 5 hours away, but even if I could get a part from them if I were at a shoot or headed out of town, I couldn't put it in, since simply disassembling a k80 is a job in and of itself (I had a Model 32 that I did that with to fix a broken part). Unless you have the tool that is used to compress the hammer springs, there's VERY little you can do on a K80 once you remove the stock.

My life is murphy's law. I just know that it'll be Wed or Thur before I leave for a big shoot and something breaks, and I'm screwed, or I'm a couple boxes into the 410 going for my first 4by and something breaks. With my kolar, 2 minutes and I have my other trigger in and I'm back in business, or if I need to change something else, 5 minutes and I'm back in business. The chances of my kolar going so far south that I would have to pull out in the middle of a shoot are extremely small.

Hell, I can COMPLETELY strip down my kolar (to where it would be impossible to disassemble anything else) with the correct allen wrenches, a butter knife, and a pocket knife (and I could probably forgo the pocket knife). I know because I've done it before.

Of course, you can buy a backup receiver, to the tune of about 3k used, vs 1k or so for a used Kolar trigger...

I think if Krieghoff had put more effort into marketing the K80 RT, the Kolar probably wouldn't even exist today.

I've been toying with the idea of building a K80 for a couple years now (only really to get a gun thats a bit lighter than what I'm shooting now, my gun is currently 11lb and I'd like to be closer to the 10lb range), and it might just happen if I can come across a K80 RT or a RT receiver for the right price.

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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:49 pm 
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I transited from a K80 and Perazzi to a Kolar last year, as far as build Quality, I beleive them to be on par, however they handle so much differently that I would suggest you trial them if you can and make up your mind based on your own handling preference and feel of the Guns, I do like the Kolar for the reason that Ian mentioned, drop out trigger group, but than the Perazzi has this feature also,,, As for the K80, In all the years of service it has never let me down. Moving from the K80 to the Kolar was an experience that I have not regreted, I now shoot the Kolar on Skeet and the K80 on Sporting, the Perazzi got the boot.
I see a lot more K80's on Skeet than I do Perazzi's, and I see a lot more Perazzi and Blasers on sporting than K80's, as for Kolar, not that many about here to draw conclusions, but the handfull of shooters that have them, swear by them.

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:03 pm 
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I don't mind Perazzis, but they aren't as ergonomically friendly in the top lever design as the kolar is due to the fact that the top lever is almost 2x the distance from the grip. I also have ergonomic issues with the K80 a little bit, since the top lever spring is very strong on the K80, and its not as easy for a lefty to push the top lever across. Neither would be an issue for a righty, since the guns were designed to be opened by rightys, but it is something to think about for a southpaw.

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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:26 pm 
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I am with Ian in that the kolar is easy to take a part and I will say it now has a better trigger feel than the K80 to me. But everyone is not like me, that is why there are many gun makers.

As far as resale I have not seen much difference if any in the 2 K guns, that is if you compare say 30" guns to 30" guns and std to std grade. From what I have seen they both go for about 8k used in good shape with tubes and a case. I can also say I tried to find a friend a good used Kolar and they are just not many out there for sale and he went with a new one.

I am not saying buy one over the other, what I am saying is buy what you like and want, it's your money.
Allen

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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:16 pm 
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Dano523 wrote:


Max for me has the rib too high at the muzzle, and I disconnect with the barrel.

K-80 pro, works best for me since I set them up to shoot high, the front of the rib is low to the front of the barrel so I don't disconnect from the muzzle,

The K-80 trigger nudges out the Max trigger. but the P is more crisp than the two. The two K's come with adjustable regulation barrel hanger systems that you can swap out if needed, while the P gun does not.



Dano, how much difference is there in Height of the rib at muzzle between the two guns? I had both as demo guns, and never noticed it much. Went with the Kolar after thorough trials of both guns, it worked best for me.

As far as the K-80 trigger "nudging out" the Kolar Stage II trigger, I'll just assume that's your opinion. I'll put my Kolar trigger up against any gun I have ever shot.


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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:48 am 
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I think Kreighoffs are boxy feeling. And the forearm is way too short. My hand goes past the forearm on them and I never could find a forearm I liked.

Perazzis are much more sleek in their feel. Sexier if you will.

You can't go wrong with any of them buyt I find Kreighoffs overrated. I know their owners hate to hear that but that's how I feel. I sold mine because I just didn't like how it felt. It's all personal preference. Plain and simple. That's why Baskin Robbins doesn't just make chocolate and strawberry because some people like bubble gum flavor

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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:20 pm 
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skeettrap927 wrote:
Looking to upgrade my gun to a top-of-the-line competition gun for American Skeet.

Of the Krieghoff K-80 Pro-Skeet, Perazzi MX-2000, and Kolar Max Skt, what do you have to say? Pros, cons, personal experience, reputations?


With your money, I'd buy 1 of each and shoot for a year. :) Keep the one you do the best with!

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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:07 am 
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it really is a touchy-feely kinda thing. I just went through the same choices...and spent a lot time thinking and handling all guns I could coon finger, asking questions, and reading. It is kinda like Goldilocks and the Three Bears....this one feels like club, this one swings too fast, but this one is just right.

In the end, I bought the Kolar. The one thing I did take away from the whole trip was....Why did I wait so long?

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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:37 pm 
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John Henry wrote:
Dano523 wrote:


Max for me has the rib too high at the muzzle, and I disconnect with the barrel.

K-80 pro, works best for me since I set them up to shoot high, the front of the rib is low to the front of the barrel so I don't disconnect from the muzzle,

The K-80 trigger nudges out the Max trigger. but the P is more crisp than the two. The two K's come with adjustable regulation barrel hanger systems that you can swap out if needed, while the P gun does not.



Dano, how much difference is there in Height of the rib at muzzle between the two guns? I had both as demo guns, and never noticed it much. Went with the Kolar after thorough trials of both guns, it worked best for me.

As far as the K-80 trigger "nudging out" the Kolar Stage II trigger, I'll just assume that's your opinion. I'll put my Kolar trigger up against any gun I have ever shot.


Height of the rib at the middle of the barrel is only around 1/8" higher on the Kolar, but with the Kolar front end of the rib, all the way up starts you with the gun shooting flat. The front of the rib cracked all the way down gets you close to 100% high, so it's the front of the rib to the muzzle that I am comparing here when the gun set up for me. On the Pro rib, block is out, figure 8 on the beads, and the gun shoot just about perfect POI for me.

On the Kolar, front of the rib about 1/3 of the way up, increasing the height of the end of rib over the muzzle, and for me since I subconscious use the sides of the barrel as part of lead picture, with the end of the rib that high above the muzzle, it comes down to just the narrow end width of the rib instead for the sub consensus reference (start to feel like I'm using a extra high trap ribbed gun to shoot skeet.

The said part, Kolar's LS-4 is so close to being almost right, could order the gun with that stock and be done with fitting with nothing more than some light stock bending (cheaper than having them make a custom stock). On the max, I order them woodless since as stated, the production stocks fit no one as it, and $1400 for a stock set to either resell or use as fire wood is a waste (Plus it a nice chuck of change that you can use for the down payment on a upgraded stock set when having one fitted to you).

Trigger wise, your only talking about 1/2lb at most between the two, but is the tension on the release reset that the Pro over the Kolar that does it for me. Granted that the Kolar is no where near as light resetting on release on a mod Browning for tubes that you have to worry about trapping, but with the stronger reset tension on the Max, just feels better (plus like that I can feel the pear ball switching over on release as well, so never have to fully release/come off the trigger before getting back on it for the second shot).


Last edited by Dano523 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Krieghoff, Perazzi, or Kolar?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:53 pm 
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Mercedes, BMW, or Jag take your pick as the opinions here are worth what you are paying for them. They all work as you can see and the only thing that matters is what feels right to you. :D



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