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 Post subject: UNIQUE LOADING POWDER
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:51 am 
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I shoot and load for a Competition Synthetic 12ga. with the overbore barrel and extended forcing cone. I seem to have higher scores with loads that approach 1200 fps in either 1oz or 1 1/8 shot weights. I settled on a load using PROMO which produces that velocity.
18 grains of PROMO, Nitro hull, Blue Duster wad, 1 1/8 shot and a FIO primer cronographs at 1190/1210 fps. Loading data indicates about 9500psi. A friend indicated the use of Green Dot or Unique would produce the same load with less pressure so I thought I would give it a try. Green Dot is not available locally so I obtained Unique and produced a load with 22.4 grains of Unique with the same componants as above which by the book only produces about 8500 to 8600 psi. A trip to the range indicates all performance is about the same with velocities at 1180/1215 psi. There is one major difference though. With PROMO (or Red Dot) the Birchwood Casey shell catcher works perfectly, gathering up and hanging on to every ejected hull :shock: :shock: . With the Unique loading the hull is ejected through the catcher landing about 5' from my position. This indicates to me something really "UNIQUE" is taking place. I know the gas ports in the ProBore are quite large as the gun will function perfectly with 7/8oz 1100 fps loads. What could be the issue here? I have checked and rechecked everything with the load. Could it be the pressure curve from the Unique powder peaks at the gas ports? Or are the ports simply too large to let me utilize the Unique powder. Anyone have experience with this :?: ? Thanks
Larry




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 Post subject: Re: UNIQUE LOADING POWDER
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:56 am 
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Consider this as well. some powders need a little pressure to burn cleanly. Red Dot at around 9500 psi burns pretty clean and that is not a very high pressure for a 12ga. Red Dot is one of the more popular 12ga powders with good reason. Promo is made to be a more economical version of it but I have no experience with it so I can't comment on how clean it is. Unique, while it may work is probably not one of the favored powders. I'd say go back to the Promo loads since there does not seem to be anything broken with them, 9500 psi is not that much for a 12ga since SAMMI specs are about 11500 psi.

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 Post subject: Re: UNIQUE LOADING POWDER
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:08 am 
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Unique is not an ideal powder for 12ga applications.

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 Post subject: Re: UNIQUE LOADING POWDER
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:51 am 
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I use Unique for my Hnadicap loads, and like it's performance. The Alliant website lists lots of recipes with Unique and 12 gauge. Get a T&S shell catcher for your Remington, and it will catch all of them. Mark

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 Post subject: Re: UNIQUE LOADING POWDER
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:33 pm 
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drsfmd wrote:
Unique is not an ideal powder for 12ga applications.


Since when? :?:
It makes a great 1 1/4oz hunting load

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 Post subject: Re: UNIQUE LOADING POWDER
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:40 pm 
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rhett1977 wrote:
drsfmd wrote:
Unique is not an ideal powder for 12ga applications.


Since when? :?:
It makes a great 1 1/4oz hunting load


While it is usable for 1 1/8 OZ loads or less, it is not cost effective and therefore not an ideal selection. But you knew that all along.

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 Post subject: Re: UNIQUE LOADING POWDER
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:45 pm 
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Curly-Nohair wrote:
rhett1977 wrote:
drsfmd wrote:
Unique is not an ideal powder for 12ga applications.


Since when? :?:
It makes a great 1 1/4oz hunting load


While it is usable for 1 1/8 OZ loads or less, it is not cost effective and therefore not an ideal selection. But you knew that all along.


Your right Curly, as usual. I took his statement at face value. Meaning Unique isn't good for 12 gauge loads. Not 12 gauge target loads. {hs#

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 Post subject: Re: UNIQUE LOADING POWDER
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:56 pm 
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The T&S for the 1100 does not quite fit the Competition Synthetic (Mine anyway) so I am stuck with what I have. A great number of the local shooters utilize the Unique powder for handicap and the games. The few 1 1/8oz I have shot seem to perform very well for me other than the fact they defy the shell catcher. I will continue with Promo (Red dot) for the 1oz loads but was hoping to utilize Unique for handicap. I do have a second barrel for my gun so for grins I might try restricting one of the two gas ports. I have done this on numerous SAIGA guns with success to it might work here also. In its current configuration the gun cycles 3/4 oz loads quite well so a little less gas is probably not going to create a problem........... My next trip over the mountain will get me some Green Dot and that too might achieve the results I am after............. Larry


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 Post subject: Re: UNIQUE LOADING POWDER
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:40 pm 
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I don't care who uses it or who recommends it, Unique IS NOT a great 12 ga. target load powder. Yes, It WILL work, but to perfection, or to any advantage, it will not.

Unique is one of the oldest and one of the best powders available, for it's intended uses, but in 12 ga., loads less than 1-1/4 oz. are better loaded with Green Dot, (if above 1200 FPS), and Red Dot if 1200 FPS or less.

Don't know exactly where the idea came from that very low chamber pressure in modern guns was the ideal thing to do.

Far from it. Target loads of 9,000 to 10,000 PSI are probably the better performers, and shoot the cleanest. I know that some people think that higher chamber pressures add recoil. Another myth. Chamber pressure has absolutely nothing to do with recoil. It's not even in the equasion when figuring recoil.

Actually, higher chamber pressures, (not exceding SAAMI maximums), is your friend. Produces better and more complete powder burns, as well as cleaner powder burns.

DLM

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 Post subject: Re: UNIQUE LOADING POWDER
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:00 am 
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DLM, The powder and load I am currently loading works fine...... and I have found, as you have often stated, pressure is our friend. My original post included the question about why a load that in the book indicated less chamber pressure produced an ejection cycle that put the hull clear through the hull catcher. It seemed strange to me... Larry


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 Post subject: Re: UNIQUE LOADING POWDER
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:12 am 
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llc wrote:
DLM, The powder and load I am currently loading works fine...... and I have found, as you have often stated, pressure is our friend. My original post included the question about why a load that in the book indicated less chamber pressure produced an ejection cycle that put the hull clear through the hull catcher. It seemed strange to me... Larry


While the gas pressure is lower, there is a much larger volume of gas which probably raises the actual pressure at the gas ports. This would cause stronger cycling of the action.

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 Post subject: Re: UNIQUE LOADING POWDER
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:29 am 
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I have had to repair some of the Garrand M1's for a similar issue. Several folks experimenting with slower powders for use with heavier bullets achieved the accuracy they were after but the pressure curve of the powder peaked nearer the gas port at the muzzle... resulted in a couple bent operating rods or at least violent and severe cycling. I suspect Alliant (or whomever) does their load testing with a break open system rather than anything like a gas operated gun...... Larry


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 Post subject: Re: UNIQUE LOADING POWDER
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:37 am 
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I think Curly's answer is pretty close to the cause. The slower burning powder will produce a much larger volume of gas, and continue to accelerate the load a lot further down the barrel. This probably would result in higher pressures at the gas ports.

DLM



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