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 Post subject: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:12 pm 
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If you are from MA, you probably know that the number of online ammo dealers who are willing to ship direct to buyers in MA is very small, thanks to our assinine gun laws. Unfortunately, B&P just decided to stop shipping shotgun shells directly to MA residents as well. From now on, they will only ship to an FFL.

According to the Gun Owners Action League website, shipping directly to MA residents is permissible:

Quote:
Mail Order Ammunition Sales Issues

Have you tried to buy ammunition through the mail from an out of state vendor recently?

GOAL members who attempted this have been repeatedly told that “It’s against the law to ship to Massachusetts” and “the law changed recently." This is not entirely true.

Several companies specializing in internet and catalog sales have made a business decision not to sell to duly licensed Massachusetts residents because they find it nearly impossible to understand our convoluted state laws. Other companies have and will continue to sell to duly licensed Massachusetts residents.

12/4/12. At this time there is no law or regulation forbidding a duly licensed MA resident from receiving ammunition from an out of state entity.


Unfortunately, B&P chose not accept this. For any MA residents reading this, I would encourage you to contact GOAL to let them know that they need to continue advocating for a way to allow out of state ammo to be shipped to MA residents directly.


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:16 pm 
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Not their job to make sure that you are "duly licensed".

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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:10 pm 
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Out of state sellers are not required to make sure MA buyers are duly licensed, any more than they are required to collect MA sales tax. When I buy ammo in another state, that vendor is not required to ask for my MA license, because that transaction is subject to the laws of the state that the transaction takes place in, not MA laws. As a result, out of state vendors are willing to send my ammo orders to an non-MA address.

The point is that MA gun owners should be contacting GOAL to see if there is a solution - otherwise options for purchasing shotgun shells in MA will become even more limited.


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:34 am 
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doverham wrote:
Out of state sellers are not required to make sure MA buyers are duly licensed


Read your own quote in the first post. It says otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:52 am 
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I don't know how Mass works, but in IL we have a FOID (firearm owner ID). For me, I just have to fax in a copy of my FOID card and I'm off to the races. In the last couple of years, I bought a case of 7.62x54R, and a repro black powder revolver through the mail. I had one guy on gunbroker refuse to sell me a 22 jet because I live in IL. The ammo came from AIM surplus and I don't remember who I bought the revolver from.


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:00 am 
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Skeetmisser wrote:
For me, I just have to fax in a copy of my FOID card and I'm off to the races.


Which puts the owness on the seller. As a seller, I simply wouldn't cooperate.

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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:02 am 
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The attorney general will enforce there own version of their laws. No company wants to go against the state, Midway won't ship brass to MA


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:39 am 
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The monster is Massachusetts, not those that refuse to comply with their assinine requirements. I left Massachusetts when I was a young man for that very reason. They are unreasonable when it comes to guns and doing business...why would anyone even bother trying to comply?


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:40 am 
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The statement by GOAL is accurate, but the reality of the situation is a little different. It is my understanding that our (MA's) Attorney General Martha Coakley has decided to interpret the current gun laws a little differently. I have been told (but can't verify) that many companies have been sent threatening letters from the Attorney General's office stating they were in violation of MA gun laws (which do require that dealers verify possession of a LTC or FID when buying ammo). The attorney general contends that since the ammo is being provided to a person in MA, and the person is taking possession of the ammo in MA (when they get the shipment), than the transaction needs to adhere to these laws. She is also applying this same law and her interpretation to reloading components and fire arms. This is different than when a person travels to NH (which is 15 minutes from my house BTW) and buys ammo or reloading components there. No one has ever decided to challenge this in court and I cannot blame them. Have you seen some of the liberal judges that preside here in MA. Why spend all that time and money for one state, which probably has a relatively small number of gun owners given the liberal attitudes and difficulty in obtaining permits and access to places to shoot.

This is the same AG who used consumer protection laws to make many types of guns 'illegal' in MA, even though many of the guns were on the State Police's list of 'approved guns in MA'.

In short, this state's attitude on gun control is lousy. I hate it, and it can really affect our ability to get the components we need. But, what can I say but welcome to the People Republic of Mass.

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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:57 pm 
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drsfmd wrote:
doverham wrote:
Out of state sellers are not required to make sure MA buyers are duly licensed


Read your own quote in the first post. It says otherwise.


That statement means that you must be duly licensed to purchase the ammo, not that the seller must confirm that. The restrictions on ammo sales in c. 140, section 123 (including requiring that sellers sell only to buyers who provide their FID or LTC) applies only to entities that are licensed to sell guns and ammo in MA. That obviously does not apply out of state sellers, who do not have that license.

As noted above, the AG (who is not shy about going way beyond her statutory authority) sent threatening letters to some out of state sellers, because she had no direct enforcement authority against them (since they were not licensed dealers in MA).

GOAL will be filing a bill to address the AG's mis-interpretation of the law, and clarify that out of state sellers are not prohibited from selling ammo in state.


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:40 pm 
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drsfmd wrote:
Skeetmisser wrote:
For me, I just have to fax in a copy of my FOID card and I'm off to the races.


Which puts the owness on the seller. As a seller, I simply wouldn't cooperate.



It's spelled "onus." :D


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:33 pm 
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ParachuteAdams wrote:
drsfmd wrote:
Skeetmisser wrote:
For me, I just have to fax in a copy of my FOID card and I'm off to the races.


Which puts the owness on the seller. As a seller, I simply wouldn't cooperate.



It's spelled "onus." :D

Damn. The one time the Doc is going to be wrong this year and you beat me to it! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:37 pm 
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it is frustrating living in MA and dealing with all the restrictions. I would be all for mail-order ammo, even if that meant jumping through some hoops ie. faxing a copy of your LTC or FID.


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:59 pm 
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Based on a discussion I had with them, B&K Sales in Natick, MA has established a relationship with B&P and will process and receive orders for B&P. So if you live near Natick, that is a possible work-around until our friendly legislature fixes the mess they made.

http://www.bandksalesllc.com


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:04 am 
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ParachuteAdams wrote:
It's spelled "onus." :D


Can't trust me to spell before the morning energy drink kicks in! More concerning is that my spell checker didn't pick it up. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:05 am 
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ldp82 wrote:
ie. faxing a copy of your LTC or FID.


Again, that's not the sellers responsibility. I have no idea what the Mass permits look like, and someone could put something together in photoshop, and I'd be none the wiser.

Work to change your laws, don't expect the rest of the country to comply with them.

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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:49 am 
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Every time I think Connecticut's gun laws are draconian, I look at Massachusetts.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:35 am 
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After what happened yesterday it is only going to get worse.


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 Post subject: Re: Shipping ammo to MA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:33 am 
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Many years ago, I lived in Massachusetts and the gun laws were terrible. They have probably gotten worse. When I worked in Cambridge, fellow office workers frowned on all hunters. At work, several of us formed a secret hunting group that lunched together once a week. It was amusing to us that no one ever noticed that we were absent the first days of deer season.

I later moved to Missouri, where the laws are more reasonable; and the populace doesn't consider hunting or gun ownership to be a "SIN." A very good move!

I really do feel sorry for all the gun owners in those rigid eastern states.


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