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 Post subject: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 7:36 pm 
I am looking for model 12 pre 1964 and have found moel 12 "y" that were made later. What's the difference and is one better than the other? Also, what is a "duck bill" vent rib?


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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:18 pm 
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This is a duckbill on a Winchester 1200 trap I have. See it on top of the reciever?... the vent rib cuts off to meet it perfectly.

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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:21 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:25 pm 
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http://community.webshots.com/s/thumb4/6/77/35/81267735qxQdMt_th.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:26 pm 
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You can click on the thumbnail in the above post to see an exploded pic.

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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:26 pm 
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oh well, crap,

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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:26 pm 
ATAShooter wrote:
Image

This is a duckbill on a Winchester 1200 trap I have. See it on top of the reciever?... the vent rib cuts off to meet it perfectly.


Thanks for the feed back. I gather from your reply that - other than colloctablity - there isn't that much difference between pre 1964 Model 12s and the "y" Model 12s. Am I correct?


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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:39 am 
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Well, the "Y" is made from a steel manufactured from a different process than pre 64's. And if you go way back with model 12's you get into Nickel steel. To be in all honesty, if you are a collector, looking for resale value, the Y isn't for you, but if you want a damn reliable shotgun to shoot.. it will do the job WELL. I have 2 model 12's... a 1957 and a 1919 the 1957 is of course standard pre 64 steel, the 1919 is nickel. Nickel ones are identified by NICKEL STEEL stamped on the barrel where the Winchester info is.

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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 10:04 pm 
Thanks for your help.


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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 2:44 pm 
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I have a Winchester Model 12 "Nickel Steel" Trap made about 1926 (4xx,xxx) serial) that I bought about 35 years ago and probaly only shot about 20 boxes through it. Have not used it in 30 years. I agree its the best balanced and easiest to shoot gun I have ever owned. I have been trying to sell it off and on over several years and when I have someone look at it they tell me that Winchester didn;t make a "Nickel Steel Trap" gun that early.


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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 3:29 pm 
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CARTER, YES they most certainly made a trap grade that early, hell, they made model 1897's that was trap grade. I think somebodys trying to jew ya on your piece.

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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 6:08 pm 
Winchester company stopped using the nickle steel on Model 12's around serial number 631,000 or around 1931.Nickle itself is a wear resistant and rust resistant alloy, hence the reason reblued nickle steel barrels turn out to be a plum color compared to the black reciever.The y series Model 12's are post 1964 but in shooting you should find no difference from the pre's to the post 64's. The pre 64 guns cost a little more because of the collecter interest, they being simply pre 64".The duckbill rib you refer to means that where the extension of the rib sits on the top of the receiver, it's wider towards the rear than the front which is the same width as the rib on the barrel
.Back in 1986 i bought a 28 inch full choke Model 12 with a solid rib from a 4 time state trapshooting champion. The gun was made in 1931 and had the winchester proof steel stamp on the barrel. I asked if he knew how many rounds had been put thru the gun and he said HE knew that HE had put over 100,000 rounds thru it. I measured the muzzle and it was still the industry standard .698 for a full choke.i was curious to ask him as i was able to get smoke so easily from the birds when i shot it. To me they are the best guns EVER made.My regular trap gun right now is a field grade with a simmons rib in 30 inch full choke that was made in 1929 and still smokes the birds better than any big $$$ foreign name over/unders or trap set-ups. With the field grade models, Winchester would stamp their wp in a circle [proof mark] on the top of the barrel where it would mate with the reciever. With a winchester factory rib that proof mark will be offset to one side or the other of the rib in the same place. I hope this helps you out with your questions.


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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 10:44 pm 
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With so many loving the Model 12...why did they stop making it...I was at Gander Mountain the other day and saw a Model 12 with very configured walnut stock and it looked almost new...wanted $595.00 for it...curious.
Bill

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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 12:28 am 
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silversport wrote:
With so many loving the Model 12...why did they stop making it...I was at Gander Mountain the other day and saw a Model 12 with very configured walnut stock and it looked almost new...wanted $595.00 for it...curious.
Bill


I'm wondering the same thing... I'll have to admit I've never had the pleasure of shooting a Model 12, I guess I've been missing out. I've looked at a plenty of them at gun shows over the years, and have known a few people who owned them. I suppose Winchester figured it was time for a change when the discontinued the Model 12, or maybe sales were down? Ithaca has proven you can still sell an old design even in this day and age. Was there some weakness in the Model 12 that prompted Winchester to discontinue them?

Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:19 pm 
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The M12 was machined from a solid block of steel. In 1964 they came up with the idea that they could produce a less expensive and lighter shotgun from a alloy ( the M1200). And then they still produced the"y" series model12. The "Y" was eventually discontinued due to production cost. NOW... There are 50 million opinions of the alloy reciever...alot good....alot bad. I have a M1200 trap that has seen well over 100,000 rounds (Dad bought it orig and passed to me) and looks and shoots like new. But my heart belongs to my M12.

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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 9:45 pm 
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I have to agree, the Model 12 is indeed the standard by which all shotguns are measured. There may be some as good, but none better! How come you didn't buy that one up at Gander Mtn,? Sounds like a deal, if you are indeed in the market for a shotgun? The Browning Reproductions are just as good, maybe better than the original Winchesters too, except they were only made in 20 and 28 ga. as well Model 42s.

BP

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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 trap or skeet
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:22 am 
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I was (and still am) on shotgun overload...and I didn't know exactly what kind of deal that might be...it was nice looking but I wasn't sure of age or real condition.
Bill

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 Post subject: Re: winchester model 12 pre.1964
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:18 pm 
Burnt Powder wrote:
I have to agree, the Model 12 is indeed the standard by which all shotguns are measured. There may be some as good, but none better! How come you didn't buy that one up at Gander Mtn,? Sounds like a deal, if you are indeed in the market for a shotgun? The Browning Reproductions are just as good, maybe better than the original Winchesters too, except they were only made in 20 and 28 ga. as well Model 42s.

BP


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