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 Post subject: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:41 am 
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I think I'm ditching 700x I'm sick of the drops being all over the place.

I use a baffle also

Trying to load this recipe.....

Rem hull
CB-0178
7/8 oz
Win 209a

17 grain is 1250 8400 psi
18.5 grain is 1325 (max) 9700 psi

I was getting 18.2 out of this same keg a month ago with the 32 bushing which is now 18.5 but goes as high as 18.8 and the 31 bushing is way too less

I don't care if it drops a little light but that is the "max load" if you do the math the 0.3 grain will be slightly over 10000 psi.
My concern is blowing up. Any advice?




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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:08 pm 
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You might consider getting an adjustable charge bar. I am not sure about it blowing up. I have never been a fan of 700X. I think it stinks and leaves a hard to clean residue in my opinion. I have used a baffle and sometimes I tap the side of the powder bottle just to make sure the powder is settling. I hope this helps. RB. PS I am a "Rad Tech" {hs#

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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:14 pm 
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I took some advice from here a while back and used dryer sheets with the powder. I think there is something to that.

That said, 10,000 psi does not worry me in 12 ga. You are only shooting a 7/8 oz load. 18 gr will give you almost 1300fps by those numbers, and I can definitely see you wanting to drop back down to that. Anything more than that seems a waste.

If you have a spare bushing you could customize it to drop in the high 17s. How much 700x do you have left?

Jeremiah

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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:22 pm 
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I didnt like the UCB. I got aggravated trying to dial in the shot which there is leeway I prolly would have went crazy doing the powder so I 86 that plan.

I just started this keg.

How is claydot? I was looking into that cause I'm gonna make a big order with enough components to load 10000 rounds


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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:42 pm 
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I had similar problems with 700X. I tried the red baffle, anti static strips in the bottle, etc. and never had repeatable drops. I switched to clays and clay dot and drops are very consistent. Also cleaner burning.


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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Have you tried it without the baffle? I have better results with some powders without the baffle

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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:38 pm 
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I got the baffle to stop the inconsistencies.

How The the flakes with the claydot?

What mec bushing numbers for 17 18 grain? That will give me an idea


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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:44 pm 
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I have great success with ClayDot. A Mec 32-34 should cover you

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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:18 pm 
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In my experience, 700X has a tendency to have irratic drops. even in precision pistol powder measures. Not worth the hassle to me. Clays or Clay Dot do a great job and meter consistantly.

Radtechy, you might need a #31 bushing with Clay Dot if using drops in the low 17's. I use a 17.3 gr. drop, and it takes a #31 in my press. A #32 with Clays.

DLM

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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:30 pm 
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Radtechy,
You might try this. Some powders meter best without a baffle.

Sacrifice one of the PC Baffles, by cutting the internal baffle out of it, and using it that way. It still will perform 2 of it's important functions without the baffle inside. It will eliminate any powder migration at the bottle/bar junction, and will eliminate the friction caused by the Mickey Mouse washer/grommet lash-up that is standard on MEC presses.

This possibly will make the 700X meter a bit better. It's also a good practice to wipe the powder bottle down both inside and out with a drier sheet. Then with each use, wipe down the outside of the bottle. I have found that this helps a great deal. Of course, grounding the press is the best way to handle static electricity.

DLM

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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:13 pm 
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radtecy,

Just doing the math will get you way off base. Pressures and velocities are not in linear proportions relative to powder charges. Many times it is very unpredictable. It's not likely that a .3 grain overcharge or an increase to 10,000 psi well even noticeable let alone be dangerous or blow anything up. You'll stand a better chance of being struck by Sputnik.

BP

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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:29 pm 
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I have been loading 700-X for over 20 years and it drops +/- 0.2 grain at the very worst, anytime of year.

You are not having a problem with consistent drops you are having a problem with getting the same bushing to drop the same amount of powder.

It sounds like either the bar is not sliding consistently to the left or you might possibly have a static problem.

If you are using a plastic baffle, that is another problem, it has been my experience that you use either the metal baffle with 700-X or none at all. The plastic baffle and 700-X are not a good match. I have a metal baffle in my press, but to be really honest, the difference with and without a baffle and 700-X isn't enough to bother with. I like the way the metal baffle seals, which is why I use one for the most part, not because it helps the drops all that much with 700-X.

Are you checking in process shells when you are weighing powder charges? If you aren't that is another possibility of why your drops seem to be 'changing'.

Whether I have hit on the problem or not, it ain't the 700-X, it is either something you are doing or your machine has an adjustment that is incorrect.

Finally, if you were dropping 20.0 grains of 700-X with a 7/8 oz. of shot, then you might be close to 11,500 PSI. 18.5 might be the largest amount of 700-X listed in the data, but it is far from a true maximum load.

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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:49 pm 
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+1 for Mark!


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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Hello,
I am wondering if vibration might be the culprit for your erratic powder drops. If you believe this might be your problem, it might be solved with depriming and priming your load first as a separate function, then start dropping powder and weigh your drops and see if that may help to get you to more consistent powder drops. I use 700x and I have about 4 lbs. left, but once the jug is empty I am going to switch to clays or clay dot. I have been reloading now for over a year and want to experiment a bit with other powders, not because I think 700x is a bad powder. This technique was suggested to me by experienced members on this site and it seemed to give me more consistent drops. I load a 1 oz load and have stuck to my recipe because it is very forgiving and I am in no danger of either damaging my shotgun or injuring myself or anyone else. I always go for safety first. I have always been told by many people that 700x is a clean burning powder and have read that as well in the Lyman's reloading manual and I believe its the wad CB1100-12 that leaves the residue in my case. Anyways it may be worth a try if you believe the solution might fit your circumstances.
Happy Shooting,
Pasquale


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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:41 pm 
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The advise to deprime and resize as a separate operation is right on, IF and ONLY IF, he is using a single stage press.

Otherwise it is not a workable process. On a Progressive Press, there is a powder drop every time the handle is pulled, so vibration has little to no effect on the drops, unless the operator is slam banging the handle. I doubt seriously that is happening.

I seldom take exception to anything dogchaser37 has to say because he has a great amount of experience and far more knowledge than the average reloader, but I firmly disagree with his assessment of the PC baffle. I have been using them as long as they have been in existance, and have had nothing but great success with them. On the contrary, I have had issues with the metal ones, and will not use them anymore.

In the case or 700X, I am of the opinion that using the PC unit with the baffle removed would probably be the best scenario. You would still control the powder migration, while having removed the source of friction to the charge bar, and quite possibly clearing any possibility of bar sticking, which can and does, cause irregular powder drops.

Barring static electricity, which can be eliminated by grounding the machine, with the above stated conditions, I believe that your powder drops with 700X would become well within the + or - .2 that was suggested by dogchaser.

DLM

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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:02 pm 
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Another vote for Clays or Clay Dot.

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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:00 pm 
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DLM,

My comments on the PC baffle concern the PC baffle as purchased, if a guy takes the baffles out of it, that is different as I don't have any experience with 700-X with a PC without the baffles.

With the baffles the PC unit makes 700-X meter poorly, the Multi-Scale baffle as it comes is nicer to 700-X.

Every tool has its' good points and bad and so it is with powder baffles. Personally, if MEC made the measure assembly a little differently so that as purchased it didn't leak powder, I wouldn't use either baffle.

{hs# 8)

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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:51 pm 
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dogchaser37 wrote:
DLM,

My comments on the PC baffle concern the PC baffle as purchased, if a guy takes the baffles out of it, that is different as I don't have any experience with 700-X with a PC without the baffles.

With the baffles the PC unit makes 700-X meter poorly, the Multi-Scale baffle as it comes is nicer to 700-X.

Every tool has its' good points and bad and so it is with powder baffles. Personally, if MEC made the measure assembly a little differently so that as purchased it didn't leak powder, I wouldn't use either baffle.

{hs# 8)


And I agree 100% with that.

Actually, as in respect to the metering, the method I stated would be likened to not using a baffle at all. It's sole purposes then would be powder migration control and friction reduction.

Some powders do not respond well to baffles of any kind, but most do well with them. IMHO, 700X does not.

DLM

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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:49 pm 
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I appreciate all the feedback.

I also called IMR to see what they had to say and I found out that for winter time this isn't uncommon having sone humidity is actually good cause it lessens the possibility of static.

I know guys wipe there charge bars with powdered graphite he said to put son in the powder bottle and mix it well then empty it cause the graphite residue works as a static barrier and also use a dryer sheet. He also said you can add some to the powder keg and mix it also.

I'm gonna go to Home Depot and try this. I just stopped at lowes and they didnt have the graphite in powder form


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 Post subject: Re: 700x dropping erratic again
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:14 pm 
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Hello to All,
Just wanted to comment on this topic again and have read some posts which which state they use different size bushings to get the desired powder drop. After experimenting with different powders and different loads, I have found that I now stick solely with the same recipe which consists of 1 oz load, using 17 grns. of 700x powder , w209 primer, cb1100-12 wad, #8 size shot, in a 12 ga. Remington Hull. Both STS and Gun Clubs. Every time I sit down for a reloading session I always check my drops for the first 10 rounds to see what my MEC 600 Jr. is dropping. I have found my bushings sometimes need to be changed to achieve the desired drop for my recipe using the same powder and shot. I recently was using a #31 bushing and I was getting drops between 17 grains and 17.4 grains pretty consistently. I always deprime and prime my hulls as a separate function. Yesterday when I went to start another reloading session, I was getting heavier drops ranging from 17.8 grains to 18.5 grains. After trying different size bushings I settled on a #29 bushing which brought me back to my desired range and after weighing my first 10 shells I was averaging 17.2 grains per drop. My shot count was pretty decent as well and was dropping 0.980 oz. of shot on the average. I don't know why this happened, if it was weather related, if powder was just dropping freely without any outside interference such as static, who knows but I was able to get the load I wanted by dropping from a # 31 bushing to a #29 bushing. I do not use a baffle but sometimes it can be frustrating why a certain set up will work one day and not the next. The recipe I use is very forgiving so I doubt even using the heavier drops would have hurt anything, I just want to be in control of what I drop and not waste unnecessary powder for the load I like to shoot. Anyways when it happened to me, I thought about this post and wanted to comment on it again for informational purposes.
Happy Shooting
Pasquale
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