CalendarCalendar   Photos  * FAQ
It is currently Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:39 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:59 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:02 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Reno, NV, USA
Some years ago I bought an old Remington mod. 11 at auction. Surprisingly, I found it pointed more naturally for me than any of my other shotguns. Unfortunately, it also slam-fires -- not every time it cycles -- just when "it feels like it." Sometimes it fires when the first shell is chambered and the bolt slams shut, and sometimes not -- sometimes not until the second or third shot -- sometimes all the time. I have had the bolt apart several times and can't see anything wrong. I sent the gun to two different gunsmiths who both charged me and assured me the gun was fixed -- WRONG! I really like the gun, but naturally, am afraid to use it for fear of killing someone with an accidental discharge.

Anyone out there who's smart enough and who knows these old guns well enough to tell me what might be wrong and how to fix it? Any chance that simply shortening the firing pin might do the trick? I'd really like to get this fine old gun back into safe operation.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:13 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 803
If you had the bolt out I can't believe you would miss this, but I have one that did the same thing. It turned out to be a broken firing pin. Does the bolt handle hit the receiver opening? If it does shim the front of the forend alittle and try it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:25 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:02 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Reno, NV, USA
Thanks, chairman. The weather sucks around here right now and I need a project. I could swear the firing pin was fine, but I'll take it apart again and find out. Not sure exactly what you mean about shimming the forend but maybe I'll understand once I get into it again.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:57 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:02 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Reno, NV, USA
Chairman -- I see what you meant about shimming the forend, but no, the charging handle does not touch the receiver opening when the bolt comes forward into battery. I will continue taking it apart.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:24 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:24 pm
Posts: 807
If the firing pin and it's hole have no problems, go through your trigger assembly good. It sounds like the hammer is following the bolt.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:21 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:02 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Reno, NV, USA
Gunluvur -- The trigger group looks good and seems to function well. There is a new safety sear installed. I don't now for sure yet, but it looks like someone might have used a breech bolt from an A5 as a replacement for the original. The one I have has a shiny, peened outer surface that I'm not sure was correct for this gun. I'm trying to find some good diagrams of the bolts for both to compare with this one, but something about the entire configuration looks wrong to me. The early M11s like this one were supposed to have a square-backed firing pin that was mechanically retracted by the locking bolt and no return spring. Later models had a round firing pin with a return spring. Mine has the square-backed pin (looks like a newer reproduction from Numrich), and also a coiled return spring, which this model really shouldn't have. I also cannot drive the fp retaining pin out of the bolt no matter how hard I hit it. What this is all telling me is that someone who worked on this gun in the past saw that the mechanical retraction mechanism wasn't working correctly and tried to compensate for it by installing a coil spring instead, and it's not holding the pin back far enough when the bolt comes into battery. What I can't understand is why the retaining pin won't come out. Anyway, that's where I am now. Any other comments would be appreciated.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:33 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 803
Check ebay they have alot of model 11 parts. You could probably pick up a complete bolt for cheap and be done with it. Unfortunately when one or more people tinker with something anything can be amiss.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:47 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:02 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Reno, NV, USA
I think you're right, chairman. A complete new bolt may be the answer. I've scoured the Internet for images of the bolts from Remington 11s, Browning A5s and Savage 720s, and this does look like a Remington bolt, but I have yet to find one with a shiny, peened outer surface. I know the ones from this vintage gun (suicide safety inside trigger guard and serial number 200xxx) were marked "Remington 11.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:30 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:02 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Reno, NV, USA
Not ready to give up yet. Finally got firing pin retaining pin out after lots of heavy pounding -- looks like it could be very slightly bent. I'll polish it lightly before reassembling to compensate, as I don't think I can find another one. Removed the firing pin itself -- square-backed and square shank up to the final one inch where it becomes round, and removed the wimpy little coil spring about 1/2" long that someone stuck over the round portion, probably thinking it would retract it. I think it actually fought the way the action is supposed to work, as the firing pin goes in and out very smoothly as the locking block rises and falls, and the action of the locking block itself is smoother without the spring. The saga continues..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:58 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:24 pm
Posts: 807
Just taking a W.A. guess here but could the coil spring that someone put on the firing pin have caused the firing pin to become binded in the firing pin channel and stuck the firing pin in the forward fire position? That would cause a slam fire. The SKS rifle has a free floating firing pin in it and just a little dry hardened un-cleaned cosmoline, oil, or dirt in the firing pin channel will cause the firing pin to stick out of the front of the bolt in the firing position causing it to slam fire and become an unwanted (and very dangerous) full auto SKS. Don't ask me how I know that. :oops: It sounds like you have gotten it nailed down or at least very close to the problem. Get that puppy working so it can eat, then tell us what the problem was. Oh! And show some pictures of your Remington model 11 too if you can. I'm a gun porn junky.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:15 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:02 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Reno, NV, USA
I think we're both right, Gunluvur. I've got the bolt back together and it looks like it's functioning fine. Haven't reassembled the whole gun yet -- probably tomorrow -- but I think that spring was screwing up the works. When I get finished I'll post pics when I figure out how. Thanks for sticking with me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:38 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:17 am
Posts: 300
Sounds like Bubba struck again! My entire career has consisted mostly of repairing what other people have "fixed". Goat


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:31 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:02 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Reno, NV, USA
OK -- Gun is back together again and everything appears to be working right. UNFORTUNATELY, when I put a small piece of Scotch tape over the back of a previously fired shell, put it in the breech and allow the bolt to slam home as it normally would, the firing pin still leaves a slight indent in the tape, which to me still means an UNSAFE GUN! Now my question is, can I solve the problem by dressing down, re-rounding, and re-polishing the front of the firing pin. Should be easy for me to do with a Dremel. I know it is a replacement made to be like the original, but could it have been made just a tiny bit too long for a gun with many years of use? What say all of you?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:51 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:50 am
Posts: 426
Location: SE Alabama
fatshot wrote:
There is a new safety sear installed.


Everyone miss this part? Does the sear actually work and interupt the trigger??

Take the trigger group out and make sure it all works right and hammer catches the trigger hook and the sear doesn't allow it to dissengage.

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see where this was addressed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:10 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:02 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Reno, NV, USA
Ya -- The sear functions fine. I checked it and the other trigger group components very carefully more than once before re-assembly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:14 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:24 pm
Posts: 807
I would test fire it. Making a mark on scotch tape isn't the same as denting a primer.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:40 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:02 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Reno, NV, USA
I'll test fire it after I shorten the pin. If I screw up, the worst thing that can happen is that I'll have to buy another pin, and they're cheap enough. I've had enough slam-fires with this thing. I don't want any more.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Remington model 11 slam-fires
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:06 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:02 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Reno, NV, USA
OK -- I took the bolt apart again and removed about 0.0125" of the end of the firing pin, re-rounded, polished, and re-installed it. After getting the gun re-assembled, same result -- slight protrusion of the end of the pin from the bolt when it comes into battery. Somehow, the pin is being carried forward with its nose partially protruding from the front of the bolt -- just enough to dent a primer and cause a slam-fire. I'm beginning to think the action of the locking bolt is just worn out and sloppy, and why a prior gunsmith installed that little coil spring in desperation. So I seem to have two alternatives using this bolt:
1) Try to shorten the firing pin some more.
2) Install a heavier coil spring in the hope it will hold the pin back enough.
3) Somehow convert the action to a post-1932 type with round firing pin, and spring, rather than mechanical retraction of the firing pin. I don't know if this can be done, but it might be possible.

My only other thought, and some of you might know the answer to this, is to possibly get a post-1932 bolt complete and install it rather than the one in the gun now. Would one of these post-1932 bolts still be compatible with all the other parts of the gun?

I'm about at wit's end here. This is a fine old gun and I hate to see it being just a wall hanger, but I'm about out of ideas.

Thanks in advance for any answers.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: agdchi, agmc4me, Al Bundy, aubtex, Baron23, Bentleybob, Bing [Bot], Bladeswitcher, blue tick, Bob_K, brandonSX3, brewer12345, bux-n-dux, chowellacsbd, chucks concepts, Chunky Monkey, clays99, Claysmoke27, Cpl Punishment, cthemfly, D Gulau, David Radulovich, dinrhmk, dlh711, Drew Hause, Excellent959, gbrendemuehl, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Gray, Hizzoner, ILLINOIS, JacksBack, jaguarxk120, jdwaddle, jer901, jlachasse, liljake82, lowgun, M Parker, Majestic-12 [Bot], marist89, Mismost, Mumpy, neangler, Nebs, oregunner, papillonkirby, pulllit, queevil, saludamc, sedae, Sportyclays, SuperXThree, texnekkid, The Sequel, Tijeras_Slim, turgay, VictorGK, Virgil, Will Fennell, wyobirds, Yahoo [Bot], ysr_racer


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group     -  DMCA Notice