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 Post subject: Double barrel won't open
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:51 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:13 pm
Posts: 6
Just wondering if anyone is familiar with liege united arms "Columbia", just received one (from an old friend)in poor-fair condition. Top Lever was broke but attached. I removed the hammers and plates, trigger assembly, stock and lever arm which had been broken where it inserts into the lever. Wondering if there is anything else that could be holding the barrels on or are they just stuck. Kind of an amateur question I guess but, what exactly does the top lever arm disengage to release the barrels. There appears to be a part protruding through the rear of the receiver, not sure if its moulded like that or if its suppose to slide, may be more visible after another cleaning/scrubbing!

Again sorry for the amateur-ness of this post but trying to get this one cleaned up and at least opening. Pretty certain her shooting days are over but still worth a face lift.

Best hobby ever!!


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 Post subject: Re: Double barrel won't open
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:06 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:35 pm
Posts: 2318
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
If the barrel will open part way, then it might be a firing pin
protruding out the firing pin hole. If it is you might be able
to push it back with a long rod inserted from the muzzle end,
if the chamber does not have a shell in it. Maybe could be
just some corrosion holding it, Maybe soaking a couple days
in something like transmission fluid might help.

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 Post subject: Re: Double barrel won't open
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:13 pm
Posts: 6
Tks for the reply; barrels are completely closed. I'm thinking the locking mechanism may still be holding it, just not sure on exactly how this works! Reluctant on forcing anything very much until I can know for certain that nothing is holding it. Again, this is the first double that I've laid my hands on so I'm VERY green on its operation.
Not much information available as far as schematics or part lists, was just hoping someone here may have one or be familiar with its operation.

Again tks for the insight!!


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 Post subject: Re: Double barrel won't open
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:38 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:16 am
Posts: 1168
Location: Mi.
The top lever has to move a flat plate in the bottom of the receiver back to let the barrels open. The flat plate goes into notches in the bottom of the barrels. If the top lever is not moving that plate back you will have to pull it back the best way you can !!!
Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Double barrel won't open
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:17 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:13 pm
Posts: 6
Thanks for that David, think I may have "somewhat" figured it out. I can see here what the lever arm rests against and that it pushes back through the receiver into a slot in the stock to allow the gun to open.

cpg1410/displayimage.php?pos=-13598

cpg1410/displayimage.php?pos=-13597

Pretty sure this is suppose to slide back to allow opening.

Now, to figure out how to get this to slide. You can probably see that I already tried to pry it back with a medium sized flat head screwdriver, but no success. Guess i'll have to come up with some kind of spreader gadget.

Anyhow, thanks again for the help!!


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 Post subject: Re: Double barrel won't open
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:54 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:43 am
Posts: 239
Location: Britain
You have removed the top lever . Have you removed the lever spring and drawn the locking bolt out ? Does it have cross bolt hidden or otherwise ? these need to be removed as well >


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 Post subject: Re: Double barrel won't open
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:18 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:13 pm
Posts: 6
Yes Norman, I have removed the lever spring, it recesses through the back of the receiver and sits in a divot in the stock. Don't see any cross bolts or any other thing else that may be holding the locking plate/mechanism.

Only problem is, there is not enough showing through the rear to manage to get any kind of grip on it and inside from underneath has restricted room to pry.
Was hoping someone had encountered somewhat of the same problem and might have an idea or a better angle of approach.

Added these pics to show, no sign of any kind of cross bolt, just solid metal !!

cpg1410/displayimage.php?pos=-13617
cpg1410/displayimage.php?pos=-13616

Tks for your input!!


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 Post subject: Re: Double barrel won't open
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:23 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:26 pm
Posts: 2481
Brian438,

With regard to the 2nd photo that you posted, there appears to be an end of a crossbolt protruding from the top left of the breech. You don't show a top or side view of the frame. I suspect that there is a rib extension that extends into a cutout in the top of the frame. That rib extension should be secured by means of a transverse crossbolt which engages a round, square or rectangular hole in the rib extension providing an additional locking arrangement. I expect that the barrels of your Belgian made SxS double have double underlocking lugs secured by a sliding underbolt and a Greener-type rib extension which is secured by a crossbolt (very common on Belgian SxS doubles). The sliding underbolt AND the crossbolt are actuated by the top lever.

DF

Montani Semper Liberi


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 Post subject: Re: Double barrel won't open
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:55 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:13 pm
Posts: 6
DF,
Thank-you for that post, I wasn't aware of the top crossbolt. (sorry to Norman for not identifying the crossbolt). With the crossbolt protruding to the left I "assume" (I hate that word) it's in the open position as the lever would have to be pushed to the right to open. Unfortunately I am not aware of any rib extension or its operation.

I can say for certain that both the crossbolt and the under bolt are quite comfortable where they are at now and have no intentions of moving....

I added a few more pics incase it could be any help, but I think I'll be laying this one away for a while. I work 5 weeks on/off rotation and I only have a couple more days left at home.

Does anyone suggest if I should let this soak in any type of solution for that duration (5 weeks), guess it can't make it any worse.

Beginning to lose faith in this ever opening..... We'll see I guess !!

cpg1410/displayimage.php?pos=-13625
cpg1410/displayimage.php?pos=-13624
cpg1410/displayimage.php?pos=-13623
cpg1410/displayimage.php?pos=-13622
cpg1410/displayimage.php?pos=-13626

This gun is marked "Columbia" at the rear of the barrels and from what I have read its a "trade mark brand" so I don't see the point it having it professionally looked at, and no sentimental value to me as such as I don't know it's history!

Again tks guys for the input!

And sorry to the guys that actually know what there at and have to read these amateur posts.


Brian


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 Post subject: Re: Double barrel won't open
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:51 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:26 pm
Posts: 2481
Brian,

The 2nd photo (#13624) shows the narrow section of the top rib which extends into a recess machined into the top of the standing breech. That narrow section or rib extension has a hole in it which accepts the crossbolt. The crossbolt should be tapered to allow for wear and still provide a good lock-up. The crossbolt should protrude approx. 10mm or more to the left and the sliding underbolt must be in its rear position in order for the barrels to be pivoted down.

Judging from the photos, I suspect that the tin worm is holding everything together. You may want to consider soaking the action in a bucket of liquid wrench for a few days then try to work the underbolt and crossbolt loose.

DF

Montani Semper Liberi


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 Post subject: Re: Double barrel won't open
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:22 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:13 pm
Posts: 6
DF,
Once again thank you, I just measured the protruding crossbolt and only approx. 3-4 mm. I guess that's also in closed position. I will soak in liquid wrench for a couple of days and see what happens.
As for the sliding underbolt, is there any other way of moving this other than from the bottom, and what would be best to try to pry it with.

Also do you think I could ever find a new lever assembly for this gun, as mine is broken (photo 13625). I have seen another one much like this after hours of searching and I believe it was stated that the gun was a US Arms make.

Like I said I will soak and try in 2 days time but that's all the time I have for now.

Hopefully you'll still be available for guidance when I return. I appreciate your help thus far.

Brian


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 Post subject: Re: Double barrel won't open
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:33 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:43 am
Posts: 239
Location: Britain
You need to ensure that the cross bolt if fully withdrawn and that the bottom bolt is levered out as far back as it will come .After that I would imagine that a liitle persuasion with a mallet on the top of the action to break any rust should do the job . If the bottom bolt has broken and is not coming out of the front bite then you have a big problem that may need the help of a gunsmith.
When you have pulled the bolts put the forend iron back on before using a mallet as the barrels may foul or be catching on the action so this will help .
Sorry to say but with jobs like this sometimes a little brute force is nessesery .


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