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 Post subject: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Ok I need some help. There is a gun auction coming up next month and for sale is a model 12 in 410 ga. It says 1 of 4 produced 26in solid rib barrel. Gun number 2 and experimental and is stamped exp. 2 1/2 chambered. Is this real of fake? And what's it worth? Any help or info would be great. I can't find anything in my gun value books.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:22 pm 
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The .410 version of the Mod. 12 was called the Mod. 42. If it is being described as a" Mod.12 in 410" it sounds as though the auction people don't really know what they have for sale which would make me wonder what else they don't have a clue about....Jack

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:45 pm 
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I would try to verify with someone at Winchester archives whether indeed there really was a .410 version of a Model 12 made, prototype/experimental or no. It is possible? I can't recall for sure just this second but it seems that somewhere I read that in the R & D stage Winchester did indeed attempt to make the Model 12 in .410 and found the proportions problematic. That's when the Model 42 became the viable option. It is similar to the Model 12 but is not a Model 12 The Model 42 is not just a smaller version Model 12 like the 16, 20, and 28s are.

I'd check it out with Winchester, maybe get a copy of the Maddis I think it is who wrote the bible on the Model 12 and find out for sure whether there was ever a prototype/experimental version of a Model 12 .410 made? If indeed there was, this is a rare bird indeed.

Value? That would depend on how deep the pockets and how badly two deep pockets want the gun. Sky's the limit.

I know there was one experimental/prototype Luger made in .45 auto. It was valued in excess of 1 million dollars. Who knows what it may bring today if it were to come up for sale? If this is indeed a legit Model 12 in .410 it could be in that class, if it is just another Model 42 it could bring from $2,000 to $10,000 depending again on condition, how many and how deep the pockets are at the auction.

I wouldn't take any auction bill as gospel saying it's a Model 12, But.....???

BP

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:14 pm 
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I remember reading about this last year when an auction had claimed to be selling one of these guns. I'm not sure what the consensus was then either, but I remember the same claim about 4 experimental 410 model 12s.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:14 pm 
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It's not a 42.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:36 pm 
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I assume you do know he difference between the Model 12 and Model 42?

BP

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Yep, you guys want the auction web site to see pics and info?


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Bauer auction service, go to current auctions, go to march 17 gun auction, go to page 6 of guns and look at it and pics carefully as the barrel says model 12.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:48 pm 
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Well, I'm neither a M12 nor a M42 expert, but from the photos it does appear to be a .410 Model 12. I would think it would be pretty hard to fake something like this. My guess is that you'd better plan on bringing a wagonload of money to the auction for this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:02 pm 
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dmknark ask over on the Winchester board on Shotgun World about this M12 410 and get their
thoughts about this shotgun.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:41 pm 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
i held a model 12 in 410. it exists.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:36 pm 
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This was discussed here a while back and someone bought a Model 12 .410 that some authorities said did not exist. It exists.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:39 pm 
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Indeed it appears to be a Model 12. It looks to be a version of the small receiver like the 16, 20, and 28 ga. The wood does not look like the time period I expected. I would have expected the forearm to be a full small dia corn cob not the larger flat bottom forearm. It kind of looks as if maybe the receiver has been polished and re-blued at some time. It's been a shooter, not a safe queen, that's for sure. Looking at the pictures I'd say it is genuine just curious about the condition and correctness. But, it's just pictures, hard to tell without holding and close eyeballing. I'd like to have it! I know that.

BP

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:39 am 
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The model 12 is fake.


There were two (2) Luger's in .45 auto submitted to the U.S. military for trials. One was kept up with, the other wasn't. Who knows where it's at. Maybe in some General or politician's family collection somewhere. For the price it would bring at auction, the U.S. military would surely take it if it were to ever pop up. As we know, the Browning model 1911 in .45 auto won the military trials.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:39 pm 
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gunluvur wrote:
The model 12 is fake.


There were two (2) Luger's in .45 auto submitted to the U.S. military for trials. One was kept up with, the other wasn't. Who knows where it's at. Maybe in some General or politician's family collection somewhere. For the price it would bring at auction, the U.S. military would surely take it if it were to ever pop up. As we know, the Browning model 1911 in .45 auto won the military trials.


Huh? Is this some kind of Boolian logic? I didn't know Winchester made any Lugers (.45 ACP or other caliber). Or, are you saying you think that Luger made some Model 12s? In .410?

You lost me here.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:19 pm 
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Burnt Powder wrote:
I know there was one experimental/prototype Luger made in .45 auto. It was valued in excess of 1 million dollars. Who knows what it may bring today if it were to come up for sale?

BP

The Luger statement was made in reference to this post.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:58 pm 
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Dah!

'Skeeter read it again, gunluver didn't have any problem following along!!

BP

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:24 pm 
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It was a subtle :wink: at thread drift. Apparently, too subtle! {hs#

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:23 pm 
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I looked at those guns this Sumer. Stay away, stay away, stay away.....and drove a hour and a half one way to do it. What a wasted day....need I say more....Larry


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 12 410 ga???
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:33 pm 
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Yes, stay away why??

BP

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