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 Post subject: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:55 pm 
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Are these wads interchangeable? The big difference that I can find is the 12C1 was designed for the paper hulls and the 12S1 was for the plastic hulls.

Other than that would the 12C1 be safe to use in the plastic hulls?

I came across a couple of hundred of the old 12C1's and it would be a waste to toss them.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:57 pm 
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Art Sorrentino wrote:
Are these wads interchangeable? The big difference that I can find is the 12C1 was designed for the paper hulls and the 12S1 was for the plastic hulls.

Other than that would the 12C1 be safe to use in the plastic hulls?

I came across a couple of hundred of the old 12C1's and it would be a waste to toss them.



I bet that those C1 wads will work just fine in a Remington or WW hull, because wads for those hulls were good in a Federal paper hull.

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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:48 pm 
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OK Curly, thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:33 pm 
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Location: Winfield B.C. Canada
what does a federal 12s1 wad look like? did it ever exist? I had 12 c1 wads that had the red cap on the bottom and I seem to remember a wad was just like the 12c1 that had a white cap on the bottom but that was 40 years ago and I can no longer remember if they were just a different colored 12c1 or ?
I have the lyman shotshell books back to the #3 but no mention of the 12s1 there.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:57 pm
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Location: Southern California
This is the 12S1 wad from the 2nd Edition of Lyman's pg. 59. It looks similar to the current Federal wads.[img]IMG_8193_zps7cd5fa84.jpg.html[/img]

I'm not sure if the photo was posted correctly so if anyone can guide me through the procedure I will re-submit it.


Last edited by Art Sorrentino on Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:36 am 
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I was going to repost your image but not enough stuff to work with.

This link will try to help you.
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=172986

Curly

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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:17 pm 
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Curly, I have been afflicted with terminal stupidity. Or I can't follow simple directions very well.
I'm going to have a donut.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:29 pm 
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Art Sorrentino wrote:
Curly, I have been afflicted with terminal stupidity. Or I can't follow simple directions very well.
I'm going to have a donut.

Art, Send me the image to the Email address in the PM.

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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:14 pm 
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Art Sorrentino wrote:
This is the 12S1 wad from the 2nd Edition of Lyman's pg. 59. It looks similar to the current Federal wads.

Image

I'm not sure if the photo was posted correctly so if anyone can guide me through the procedure I will re-submit it.


Howzat?

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Last edited by Curly-Nohair on Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:49 pm
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Thanks for posting the pictures guys, it looks like the 12s1 was really just a 12s3 wad for tapered cases. I still have some of the old champion II cases at my place up north but I sure can not remember what I loaded them with. they were a translucent maroon color it seems to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:37 pm 
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Curly, it's magic. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:44 pm 
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Duckshoot wrote:
Thanks for posting the pictures guys, it looks like the 12s1 was really just a 12s3 wad for tapered cases. I still have some of the old champion II cases at my place up north but I sure can not remember what I loaded them with. they were a translucent maroon color it seems to me.


NO Duckshoot, You still have it wrong.

Both the 12S1 and 12S3 are for straight wall cases. The 12S1 is for 1 oz. loads, and the 12S3 is for 1-1/8 oz. loads. They also made a 12S4 wad for 1-1/4 and 1-3/8 oz. loads.

The 12C1 wad was a special design having a double powder seal that was specifically designed for 1-1/8 oz. loads in Federal paper shotshells. Claybuster makes a wad designed to replace the 12C1 in the Fig 8 basic design, but doesn't have the double powder seal in it's design. It is the CB3118-12AR.

Federal has never made a wad, specifically designed for a tapered wall hull, that I have any knowledge of. However, due to the thicker walls of the paper hulls, wads designed for tapered wall hulls work very well in paper hulls.

DLM

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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:18 am 
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D L Marcum wrote:
NO Duckshoot, You still have it wrong.

Both the 12S1 and 12S3 are for straight wall cases.

Are you sure ?
If so, why did Lymans say that the 12S1 is designed for tapered case walls ?

Image

The 12S0 however, is for straight-wall hulls.


Duckshoot wrote:
, it looks like the 12s1 was really just a 12s3 wad for tapered cases.
Since the Downrange DRF3 12S3 clone (pictured on right) has an undersized powder cup which is the exact same size of the powder cup on a Blue duster (if not a tad smaller), it's pretty much unusable in straight-wall hulls (such as the Fiocchi's shown below), you can use it in the tapered hulls. The DRF3 could very well be todays "12S1".

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:49 pm
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Location: Winfield B.C. Canada
It seems to me that the 12so is the federal wad for one ounce loads in strait walled hulls, at least that is how it is advertised and how I have used it for years.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:21 pm 
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Duckshoot wrote:
It seems to me that the 12so is the federal wad for one ounce loads in strait walled hulls, at least that is how it is advertised and how I have used it for years.

You are correct, - the 12S0 is the 1-oz Federal wad for straight-wall cases.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:59 am 
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I'm really confused now. This is from the Claybuster website regarding their 12S3 clone:

Quote:
CB2118-12 (12S3)
For use in 1-1/8 to 1-1/4 oz. trap, skeet, sporting clays or hunting loads. Performs best in straight wall cases such as Federal paper or plastic and Fiocchi.

Is there a wad for 1 1/8 oz loads in the Federal paper? The photos above would suggest the 12S3 is unusable for that purpose.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:12 am 
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Nebs wrote:
I'm really confused now. This is from the Claybuster website regarding their 12S3 clone:

Quote:
CB2118-12 (12S3)
For use in 1-1/8 to 1-1/4 oz. trap, skeet, sporting clays or hunting loads. Performs best in straight wall cases such as Federal paper or plastic and Fiocchi.

Is there a wad for 1 1/8 oz loads in the Federal paper? The photos above would suggest the 12S3 is unusable for that purpose.


Nebs,
Years back we loaded Federal Paper cases with standard AA Wads
with great success. The Federal paper cases have straight walls, but the paper walls are thicker than plastic hulls, and therefote the AA wads fit very nicely in those hulls.

So, I would try a WAA12 wad, (or clone thereof) and see how the stack height works out. Down range makes AA Clone wads in their DRA series of wads, which are made in 3 sizes. 1 oz., 1-1/8 oz., and 1-1/4 oz., so finding a wad that has the correct stack height for your load should be easy enough.

You also have the choice of the CB3118-12AR wad that Claybuster makes to replace the Federal 12C1 wad. It is stated to be for 1-1/8 oz. loads.

DLM

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 Post subject: Re: Federal 12C1 and 12S1 wads
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:40 am 
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Thanks. Sometimes I overanalyze this stuff. The inference to be drawn from Claybuster's description is wads designed for tapered wall cases are not suitable for use in the Federal paper. Now that you mention the "years back," I do recall loading federal papers in the early 1970's, when I first started reloading, and federal papers was all I had. I didn't know the difference between straight walled and tapered wall cases. I'm pretty sure I used AA style wads. In fact, I recall picking up spent wads and reusing them.


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