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 Post subject: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 11:32 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 11:15 pm
Posts: 3
Hi I am new to the forum sorry if my post is misplaced or im doing this incorrectly in some manner but here is my question and a stupid one at that...

I recently got into clay shooting with a buddy and his ollllld mossberg pump... I loved it I've always been an avid gun enthusiast but not a hunter nor have I even owned a shotgun prior... About a week after the first clay shoot and some reading on the internet I went in search of a semi-auto good clay specific gun for around 500 dollars. I came home $1200 later with a Browning Silver Sporting gun 250 rounds and as many clays... I could ...not.. hit... #$%# my buddys gun had a single beed and I would aim right below the clays and was doing great... My browning has a ribbed barrel with a beed about mid barrel and a neon green triangular sight at the tip... Where is the proper placing of my sights to decimate some clays?? What am I doing wrong? It was very frustrating putting down my new 1100 dollar gun to pick up a beat up mossberg pump worth maybe $150 and kill some clays.

Here is a link to my model->
(http://www.browning.com/products/catalo ... 11&tid=377)




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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 8:10 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 1:52 pm
Posts: 17
This is the way to go with every new shotgun. Go have your gun patterned. See where it shoots at 16 yards and at 30 yards. You will be able to tell if your gun is shooting were your aiming. My guess is your Browning is probably shooting high. But the only way to tell is to have it patterned
Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 8:54 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:21 am
Posts: 3160
Location: South Texas
I think a couple of things...

1. you are looking at your brand new beads instead of the target. lookatthebirdlookatthebirdlookatthebird...don't look at anything except the bird...aiming a shotgun means you are not looking at the bird, you are looking at your day glow neon green beads. They are pretty ain't they? They don't bead birds, your eyes break birds, look at the bird.

2.NOW...RIGHT NOW... spend some money on lessons

if this does not help, repeat items 1 and 2.

_________________
Grand Dad called me Mismost because I did. I don't anymore.
Good Shooting!


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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 9:23 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 5062
Location: Oregon
People talk about pointing a shotgun, rather than aiming it. If, after shooting it at a patterning board, it doesn't shoot where you are looking, there are shims in the rear stock that can be adjusted to change how the gun fits, and can change where it is shooting. Spend some time reading the owner's manual. Use the beads to get a consistant gun mount, then shift your focus to looking at the target. You bought a nice gun and with a little trigger time, it will start breaking birds. Mark

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Mark (oregunner) See the bird, shoot the bird!


Last edited by oregunner on Wed May 22, 2013 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 9:35 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 11:15 pm
Posts: 3
Thank you all for the replies. I know I definetly need more time behind the gun and I was expecting it to take some getting used too I was just afraid I was using the sight system poorly or doing something wrong I would have to later unlearn. I am hoping to take the gun out again today and see how round two goes.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 10:17 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:21 am
Posts: 3160
Location: South Texas
doing something wrong I would have to later unlearn.

BINGO...winner winner chicken dinner! Take some lessons NOW...while you are brand spanking new and before you teach yourself a bunch of bad habits. Lessons are the cheap way out....much cheaper than more targets and more shells (and more missed birds).

A good instructor is going to get into gun fit, gun mount, stance...and not just pull a bird when you call PULL. There are only 4 things you must to do to hit a moving target. Do you know what those are?

_________________
Grand Dad called me Mismost because I did. I don't anymore.
Good Shooting!


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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:59 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:23 pm
Posts: 4621
Location: Brillion, WI
Nathan,

As others implied, it ain't the arrow, it's the Indian. The advice to get some instruction is very good. You do not to struggle with a great gun and little shooting success.

The instructor will point out that shotguns are not aimed. They are pointed. That means that you do not look along the rib when swinging to a target, regardless of the kind of target it is.

However, when you create sight pictures when you point at targets, you must know where the centers of the patterns are going to be relative to the targets you are shooting. A sight picture is the position of the muzzle relative to the target when the shot is fired. However (another one), the muzzle is seen ONLY in the peripheral vision. You look ONLY at the target and focus ONLY on the target, hard enough so you can usually see the rings on the target. This is known as centering on the target and is a learned technique. It makes the target seem larger and seems to slow it down a little.

Do your best to find a good instructor, a certified instructor if one is available. That way you will not be taught things that have worked well for an experienced shooter but may not involve the best shooting form for a new shooter. Shooting form is the stance (position of the feet), gun mount, weight distribution and the head/neck/body posture used when you shoot. It has a major effect on shooting success.

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Rollin

Author: Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition - Gun-fitting & shooting instruction for shooters of all ages and disciplines. http://www.amazon.com in their book section.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 4:59 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 11:15 pm
Posts: 3
Thanks so much for the advice guys. Where should I begin in searching for an instructor? I have a great feeling that im going to have to travel quite a ways to find one or do most sporting clubs have like club pros such as golf clubs do? how much (Approximately) will one cost and what should be deciding factors on which to choose if I do have the option? Thanks again


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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:22 pm
Posts: 6948
Location: ATHENS,TX.
Ask around at your club and see who they recommend,or watch and see who the good shooters are and see if they might be willing to help.

_________________
Jerry

TSRA LIFE MEMBER
NSCA #610xxx
http://www.rosecityflyingclays.com/
http://www.caneycreeklodge.net/shootingsports.html
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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 8:59 pm 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:18 am
Posts: 1555
Location: North Carolina
If you look at the bead, barrel or any other part of your gun during the shot process you will shoot behind the target because you will loose the subconscious connection between your eyes and hands. The recommendation to seek the assistance of a qualified coach is really good advice.

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Hope This Helps;
Chuck
They don't fly backwards, behind never works
CSM Certified Instructor
NSCA Level II Instructor
Deep River Sporting Clays and Shooting School


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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 2:29 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:03 am
Posts: 756
You cannot lose the connection between the eyes and the target before the trigger is pulled or you greatly increase the chance you will miss. If you consciously notice the barrel you quit seeing (reading) the target as well as if you had not tried to see two things at once. Let your subconscious do the barrel-checking and you will do your best. Try to "help" your subconscious by consciously checking and you will do less well. It is that simple.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 11:13 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:36 pm
Posts: 674
Location: California Gold Country
My suggestion is to use the beads to see if the gun fits properly (one behind the other when the gun feels right) then forget them. My secret to shooting moving targets is to put the shot where the target is going to be (that place in the sky) when the shot gets there. When I aimed at moving targets, by the time the shot got to where I was aiming, the target wasn't there anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:23 pm
Posts: 4621
Location: Brillion, WI
Claytbuster brings up a good point. To hit targets that are crossing or quartering, you must shoot ahead of the target. There is reaction time and shot-travel time from the instant you make the decision to fire a shot and the arrival of the pattern at the target. Meanwhile, the target continues to travel.

Keep that concept in your mind until it gets absorbed by your subconscious and you are able to do it without conscious thought.

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Rollin

Author: Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition - Gun-fitting & shooting instruction for shooters of all ages and disciplines. http://www.amazon.com in their book section.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:49 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:05 pm
Posts: 1792
Location: Kerrville TX
Nathan, you have made a good start with your selection of a reasonably well built gas auto for your 1st gun. Get on a bench and "aim" your gun at a spot on a 3-4' wide sheet of paper. Line up the beads just like any other "sights". This will tell you exactly where your GUN shoots. If it is about 50/50 above and below that target you were "aiming" (60/40 OK)at , that's fine. You now know where your GUN shoots IF you have a decent fit, mount and form. Now throw the "aiming" out. You have to learn to get the gun from your hold position to your shoulder and wind up with that same bead positioning you had when you aimed the gun only now your eye becomes the rear "sight". With a proper "fit" the gun will be lined up just as if you "sighted" it and you can quit worrying about it and just "point" the gun. SPEND the $ on a good instructor......NOW. A couple of good lessons and you can leave you buddy in the dust (no pun intended) with your shooting. Join the NSCA and you will get a very good magazine. In there you will find a farily complete list of all of the certified instructors , level 1-3 (levels based on training and experience). Just find a couple close to you and call them. See which one you feel the most at home with. Don 't just out and "shoot some clays" and expect to get better. You need to make the practice count. Get the basics first.....Jack

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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:35 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 6:15 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
I'm new to all of this, too, and I've taken a lesson but I'm not following this concept of not seeing the barrel. I know I am swinging the barrel too fast or early because on the clays I broke I had to actually come back to the target or at least shorten the lead. I couldn't know that if I wasn't seeing the barrel AND the clay. I'm not aiming at the clay but I'm seeing both and I can't see how you can't.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:36 pm
Posts: 674
Location: California Gold Country
How often do you look at your hand when you are reaching for a door handle or light switch? After mastering the basics, and the gun becomes part of your arms, your subconscious will take over and the shot will go to that hole in the sky where the target is going to be when the shot gets there. You will become "one with the gun." I know it sounds spooky but trust me it works. Your body knows what to do but your mind wants to do it it's way.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:25 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 3082
Location: St. Charles Missouri and Virginia
If it makes you feel better, I went from a Maxus to a Citori and my trap scores nose dived. It just took shooting the gun and learning the breaks for me. Now I am back to shooting mid-high 90's again. Give yourself some time, it will come around.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:02 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:05 pm
Posts: 1792
Location: Kerrville TX
Nathan, pay particular attention to
"fosters" post about the light switch and door handle. I would include the act of catching a baseball. You don't have to look at your glove do you? That's the way it feels when you get a good fit with a shotgun. You don't have to look at the gun to "know" where it is going to hit. You DO see the barrel but it is just at the edge of your periferal vision and should NOT be really "noticed". It's all sort of voodoo until you figure it out. The most conplicated computer in the world is right between your ears, let it work for you, don't try to overide it.....Jack

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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:14 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 6:47 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Canada
The gun needs to fit to your shoulder and be held so that it's staring into the same volume of space that your eyes are watching, and you need to move so that hands/gun, head and eyes stay tied together, "straight ahead" relative to your skull. Looking along the rib helps you set up the alignment when you shoulder the gun, but that's where its function ends.

Once your brain picks up the bird in peripheral vision, it starts automatically computing the lead necessary to get your eyeballs properly on it and stay with it. I did that this morning after burning up three boxes of shells yesterday to minimal effect. I found myself pulling the trigger as soon as my view of the bird was fully binocular. It meant my eye/gun system had picked up the bird and was tracking correctly. It took me quite a few shots to get this right and develop "muscle memory". Once I had it, I broke a MUCH higher proportion of my targets.

You seem to have done well enough with your friend's gun, at least well enough to make you happy and get you interested! I suspect that what's happened (at least in part) is that with the change of guns, the "muscle memory" for setup, hold and swing which worked for you with your friend's gun no longer serves you with yours. From the picture you linked to, your gun has an angled rib (higher at the back), and this is probably a significant change from the Mossberg pump. I suspect the cure for your problem is continuous practice until your brain has reprogrammed itself to work with your new gun.

I hope for your sake that the cure isn't a different gun! If it is, it'd be interesting to see if you eventually find satisfaction with one that has a flat top rib rather than a humpback profile. For your sake, I hope you and your Browning end up adjusting well to each other.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Aim For Clays
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:03 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:06 am
Posts: 967
Location: South Carolina Lowcountry
Put up a large sheet of paper (butchers paper works well) and place an orange dot in the center. I like to shoot from 30 yards and use a tight choke. Look at the dot, mount the gun as you would on an aerial straight away target, and shoot. Repeat this from 5-10 shots. Remember to look at the dot. Do not try to aim. After a few shots, a hole will start to develop where your pattern center is. I've also seen folks use a bed sheet but paper works fine and momma won't get mad at you for using it. If your gun has stock shims, you can use those to adjust your point of impact once you have an idea where the pattern center is. You can also check your point of impact for aimed shots on a similar target. Much like patterning a turkey gun. I like to do both. As has been said, "aiming" at aerial moving targets is a sure fire recipe for a miss. For best success, you need a gun that shoots where you look. The first pattern method I described will let you know if your new gun is doing that. Then you can adjust accordingly.




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