It is currently Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:03 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot reloading....Velocity vs payload?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:35 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:49 pm
Posts: 848
Location: Moncks Corner, SC
DuckManEvs,
A lot of folks on this site need the extra payload and longer shot strings to compensate for poor shooting. I, for one, do not.




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot reloading....Velocity vs payload?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:41 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 4643
Location: Long Island, NY
Rubberhead wrote:
DuckManEvs,
A lot of folks on this site need the extra payload and longer shot strings to compensate for poor shooting. I, for one, do not.


I would have sworn that you knew better than that! :roll:

In any given choke, a heavier payload will deliver more range, not a larger pattern. And that one about shotstring! Wow! Long shotstrings have been undeniably proven to be detrimental to shooting because if they do anything, they tend to thin the pattern.

Please tell me you were joking!

Frank

_________________
Μολών λαβέ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot reloading....Velocity vs payload?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:40 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:55 pm
Posts: 273
Location: washington state
I also could not make any hi speed loads pattern for beans about 1300 to 1400 F.P.S. patterned best for me. I reload steel and heavy weight 13 also lead for mt 28;20 12 and 10 ga. I can reload some cheaper than factory some you can't all my loads pattern better than factory loads that's my standard. factory steel shells have always killed up close it's past 35 or 40 yds. to 55 that hand loads start coming into there own. I pattern all my steel loads at 50 yds. for waterfoul 30 to 35 for my steel upland loads and they work great.I think the trick with steel is to go with the biggest pellet you can and keep your denisty up so I use 3'' in my 12 for the bigger pellets not faster loads. I use 1#and BB's for ducks in the 12 and also BBB's in the 10 ga. the small guns I use steel 6's for quail 4 and 2's for pheasants. Geese are big and tough i use H.W 13 BB's they kill farther than you should shoot I pattern those at 60 yds. killer pattern.so the reason I reload is for the fun of it trying to get the best pattern I can trying all kinds of things so I you don't enjoy shooting paper and scratching your head you better feep on buying factory shells.
lubloy
if in doubt give'em two more feet






ican


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot reloading....Velocity vs payload?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:31 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:08 am
Posts: 1872
B-Boy wrote:
Mnshooter wrote:
1oz of shot is 1oz of shot no matter how fast you try to drive the stuff.

Well, not exactly. Let's take the #3 shot you like as an example.

1 oz #3 Lead - 106 pellets
1 oz #3 Steel - 154 pellets

So you can see that steel has, in this case, 48 (45%) more pellets in a 1 oz load. I do agree that too much speed will blow out your pattern, at least that's my experience. When I'm hunting ducks, I prefer to have a few more pellets and like the 1350-1450 fps range. They pattern well in my gun.


You are comparing apples to oranges. If you follow the old 2 size rule, then you use steel 1's at about 108 per oz to equal lead 3's. I go back to 1oz of shot is 1oz of shot. If you want the effect of larger pellets like lead 4's you use steel 2's. You also have to accept the limitations of smaller pellets to get more density if you want more density. In a 1oz load steel 3's are about as heavy as I like to go (or lead 5's) to balance density with effect. One has to accept the limitations of a load.
Sooner or later you get the arguement that if can shoot good enough you can kill mallards at 50 yards with a 410 and other dribble. First off, I am not that bad a shot, I only shoot trap occaisionally and can usually break over 20. I have won a couple of BP competitions with a shotgun and have been hunting for approaching 50 years. I doubt that many of our contributers are national champions. As I have gotten older I have come to appreciate the correct tool for the job. Birds can zig when they should zag and some days things just don't go right. Small bores with light shot charges can be fun, but only if one is willing to accept their limitations. Small shot pellets are an abomination and cripple more than they should, but some justify the use of small bores by using them "to fill out the patterns" so that the pellet count equals that of a larger bore using larger pellets. Essentially shotgun patterns are fairly dense in the center and thin out as they expand. 1oz of shot will thin out faster and give a smaller EFFECTIVE pattern than 1 1/4 given the same percentage. That effective pattern is what kills birds and its not some average in a 30" circle but a far smaller diameter.

DP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot reloading....Velocity vs payload?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:28 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:06 am
Posts: 3222
Location: UK, England, Britain
i think alittle common sense should be liberally applied.

all these assumptions, and insightfull information by BP faster is better.

however, that comes at a price, usually lighter payloads.
if i shoot 5 pellets #9 steel at 2500fps, one of the numbers look impressive, but i can honestly say, its a lemon.

i think it should also be pointed out that big shot carries more energy than smaller shot, regardless of how fast its shot. and the only way to get a decent enough pattern is with lots of shot. lots of big shot usually = big payload.

now i`m not saying the 7/8oz steel loads are worthless. ducks on deeks, and its down.

dont get lost in the data. view the whole package.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot reloading....Velocity vs payload?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:57 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:08 am
Posts: 1872
I spent some time looking at SAAMI ballistic tables for retained velocity of steel and lead shot. As to faster is better, another way to look at it is that a faster load may give a 3-5 yard difference in impact. Those I knew thatt were shooting black powder steel loads at about 1100 fps at the muzzle were givng up about 10 yards of impact velocity over some of the hotter steel loads. While there is a range where the pellets lose their lethalness, it is usually beyond the patterns effeciency. the 3-5 yards is insignificant.

DP


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot reloading....Velocity vs payload?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:49 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:08 pm
Posts: 760
Location: lapine oregon
Pellet count + 3-300 rule, Is how I simplify the concept. If you take a 100 pellet lead shot load at 1200fps and you want to simulate the same performance with steel shot. You attempt to keep the 100 pellet count, with steel shot 3 sizes larger and 300fps more muzzle velocity. Steel #2 lead #5, Steel #3 lead #6, Steel #1 lead #4, Steel BBB lead #2.

_________________
oha life member, lapine oregon. http://www.oregonhunters.org/ join today


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot reloading....Velocity vs payload?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:44 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:20 pm
Posts: 105
RandyWakeman wrote:
Image
Image

This faster :shock: steel load is moving slower :( at 20 yards. It is inferior in penetration at all ranges. :oops:


Too funny. By your logic and using the data you provided we should all switch to fast #4 loads for everything. More hits and better penetration. Funny thing is that's exactly what people are doing around here for both ducks and geese. High speed #3 and#4 load at just under 1700 fps and even the goose hunters are reporting far fewer cripples.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot reloading....Velocity vs payload?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:56 am 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:02 am
Posts: 22413
Location: Plainfield, IL
What goose hunters, poachers? Lead isn't an option.

_________________
--Randy

http://randywakeman.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot reloading....Velocity vs payload?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:41 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:46 pm
Posts: 540
Anyone have a 28ga steel recipe for AAHS hulls?


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot reloading....Velocity vs payload?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:18 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:35 pm
Posts: 3798
Location: Maumelle, Arkansas
What a weird place to hi jack a thread! :lol:

_________________
WELL YOU GONNA PULL THOSE PISTOLS OR WHISTLE DIXIE ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot reloading....Velocity vs payload?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:02 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:51 pm
Posts: 2
was hoping to pm Mnshooter but account is too new I guess. I'm looking for a steel shot recipe like the winchester #AASCL1258 uses which is 1oz. of #8's and has a velocity of 1450 fps. I live in CA and am gearing up for all the new stupid laws and need to reload steel for my son's shotgun which is very picky and likes to stove pipe when it comes to ejecting but the higher velocity lead rounds have not been a problem. Would appreciate some help here. Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot reloading....Velocity vs payload?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:58 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:32 pm
Posts: 79
Here's a pretty informative thread that seems to fit your needs. viewtopic.php?f=248&t=406098


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot reloading....Velocity vs payload?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:09 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:51 pm
Posts: 2
Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Steel shot reloading....Velocity vs payload?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:41 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:32 pm
Posts: 79
RSI manual has quite a few loads using their SAM1 wad in Winchester hulls. Some of the older loads use 800x and run just under 1400 fps for an oz. RSI #107 is an oz. of steel in a Winchester hull running 1,550. All of the RSI loads over #64 use Alliant Steel powder.

Neither 800x or ASteel meter well through a MEC. The SAM1 wad is the only steel wad that seems to fit in a taper hull. There is some BPI data using an MG42 wad in a Remington hull. The MG42 is at its best in a straight wall hull. It's an incredibly tight squeeze going into a Remington and if you need to pull it apart, you'll likely destroy the hull and wad. Overall you'd be better off choosing to load steel components into a Euro or Federal hull.




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 1958jr, 5 Stand Dan, B.L.E., BackInTheSaddle, Bass3, Basstar, bgouker, bigbluedodge, Bing [Bot], birddogs4me, Bladeswitcher, Brit101, C725, casonet, cbradford, cbxman, champ188, CLuttrell, codyman, Cons69rs, cowpoke, Darkhorse60, David Spear, Dealman, DEG, dhb66, doubleslover, drawdc, Eriehunter, Five forks, fullgallon, GAFORESTER, gdub41, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Gumslough, HawkEyeEarl, IL Duckshewter, ILLINOIS, indianajonze, John H, John Henry, jwr50, Keith H., Keperkey, KRIEGHOFFK80, la angler, LG, Maser, max harris, Mgorvi, Mike Noel, Mike-Sid, mikester, mortum, Mule Driver, Nebs, No Recoil, oldshotty, oyeme, Patently Obvious, psf3, railroad, Rooster booster, SG4343SG, Slimchance, stevenc1311, SunINmyEyes, Supervet, SuperXOne, Tidefanatic, Toolmaker777, twostepct, viking, wyobirds


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
© 2017 Carbon Media Group Outdoors    - DMCA Notice