CalendarCalendar   Photos  * FAQ
It is currently Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:57 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: POI
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:59 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 176
Since you trap guys shoot pre mounted, how do you pattern your guns for POI? Do you use a pre mount to adjust your left/right adjustment, or do you start with a low gun and bring the gun to your face and shoulder and pull the trigger?

Thanks




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POI
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:35 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 6411
Location: Creston, Iowa
Doesn't matter which clay sport your shooting. The barrels have a POI and then we set them to place shot to a perferred location. In trap, we set POI high for built in vertical lead. Being able to see the target during the shot and not have to over run it to shoot ahead. Skeet many want the pattern to be bead center or an inch or two little high. The same for sporting clays. Here is how to determine the guns POI and how to set its location. Neil Winstons book is the POI Bible to all spraygun shooters.

http://www.mn-trap.org/tech_corner/n_wi ... _Yards.pdf

Maltz

_________________
Have gun, will travel
http://www.cleartargetoptics.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POI
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:40 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:23 pm
Posts: 4637
Location: Brillion, WI
slim,

I have not read Neil's POI exercise that Maltz recommended for some time but it is THE way to find the POI(s) for your barrel(s).

Keep one thing in mind, however: The result of your POI patterning will be accurate and useful ONLY when your eye is in exactly the same position relative to the rib when you shoot moving targets as it was when you fired your POI patterning shots. If your head flaps around on your neck during swings or, if your gun mount is inconsistent, your patterning POI results will be meaningless.

So... use a good shooting form, especially a correct gun mount with a natural head and neck posture, and practice your gun mount with an empty to develope a consistent mount - whether you shoot targets with a pre-mounted or low gun.

_________________
Rollin

Author: Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition - Gun-fitting & shooting instruction for shooters of all ages and disciplines. http://www.amazon.com in their book section.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POI
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:33 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 176
I appreciate your information. I was just wondering since trap shooter pre mount, if pattering, they use a pre mounted gun? But after your comments, I take it that when pattering, you also start from a low gun position and mount then shoot? Is that correct?

I will read the article and practice what is says as far as pattering.

Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POI
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:59 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:32 pm
Posts: 6411
Location: Creston, Iowa
To find the barrels POI, you not only pre-mount but also shoot from a bench. Much like sighting in a rifle. Doesn't matter what game you will participate in. Your looking for where the gun shoots. After you know and have confidence in the gun, then set the POI to what is preferred by how you want to point the target.......... using good form.

What may be confusing is trying to compare an instinctive shot made during a hunting situation from a low carry position. Look at the bird, move, mount and shoot while focusing on the bird. Knowing the POI and having it placed to where your looking is as important then as if on a range shooting clay targets. Your looking for the shot pattern to be centered on the moving target, clay or feathers. You want the gun to point to the target while enjoying complete confidence in where it will place shot with you at the helm.

You will find that confidence best by both, seeing it on paper and crushing the target. The range and the field is not different when it comes to POI. The technique being used may vary from one shooting discipline to another. It is generally regarded as an advantage to pre-mount the gun. Positioning the gun mount with time to make certain it is accomplished perfectly. Insuring the POI will not vary based on missing the gun mount.

Practice mounting seperately from shooting. The better you are at it, the more consistant the shot placement is. Mounting form is critical to being a good shot. As well as balance, handling and trigger timing. We practice shooting clay targets to bring all this together into putting more shot on the intended target. Matters less what that target is. The best field shots I hunted with are deliberate shooters, but this is not the best for competitive clay shooting. Even sporting clay shooters, practicing hunting related situations. Deliberately shoot a target presentation to be able to commit the handling and timing to their subconscious. All on one presentation. As soon as they find the key to breaking the target, they commit it to their subconscious to shoot the rest.

Good clay shooters develop their sub or un conscious to manage the shot. It will be more consistant than being deliberate. The natural human instinct would be to commit repetitive difficult tasks to the subconscious to reserve energy and promote consistance results. Imagine the amount effort to control, focus and to purposely trigger every shot, 300 times in a day. Exhausting and you would fight against your own subconscious trying to take over to protect your conscious mind. That is its purpose in life, to protect you from you.

Not sure what you asking, but knowing how it all works can help.

Maltz

_________________
Have gun, will travel
http://www.cleartargetoptics.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POI
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:23 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 176
Well I was taught to take 3 or 4 practice mounts and then on the next mount shoot at the plate. Now that was from a low gun position. What I was asking if trap shooters do the same in trying to find POI on a pattern plate or do they just mount the gun point at the target after they have settled into their position and take their time in pulling the trigger,( much like sighting a rifle).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POI
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:13 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:15 pm
Posts: 296
OK, I think I understand what the Original Poster is asking. We went off on a tangent because of our knowledge of the “13-yard benchrest” POI check that others have already mentioned. And, as already mentioned, that method removes the human element from the test, since we’re trying to verify the raw POI characteristics of the gun itself.

But you’re asking about the more traditional shoot-at-a-pattern-plate method (set at a greater distance from the muzzle). I can’t speak for all trapshooters, but it’s been my experience that most of us would do it as follows:

As you suspect, since we pre-mount our guns in Trapshooting, that’s exactly what we’ll do when shooting at a pattern plate. We want to simulate shooting at a trap target. So, we don’t whip the gun to our shoulder from the low-gun position and fire quickly. That’s not how most of us shoot trap, so it’s not how we would check a trap gun’s POI. At the pattern plate, we basically try to duplicate the same shooting style and gun movement we use when shooting actual trap targets.

For those trapshooters who check POI via this method, they shoot from the standing position exactly as if they were on a trapfield, and the gun is pre-mounted. Some folks aim carefully (and likely use a careful trigger squeeze), but others deem it better to make a little upward movement with the gun (like they would on a rising trap target) and fire at the aiming mark on the pattern plate while the gun is moving upward at what they judge to be their “normal” move to a rising trap target = they hit the trigger just like on a real target.

_________________
Author of Understanding Shotgun Stocks for Better Shooting: Features, Fit, Fixes, Fables, and Facts, available direct from the publisher: http://www.GunShowBooks.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: POI
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:56 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 176
TrapshooterJeff wrote:
OK, I think I understand what the Original Poster is asking. We went off on a tangent because of our knowledge of the “13-yard benchrest” POI check that others have already mentioned. And, as already mentioned, that method removes the human element from the test, since we’re trying to verify the raw POI characteristics of the gun itself.

But you’re asking about the more traditional shoot-at-a-pattern-plate method (set at a greater distance from the muzzle). I can’t speak for all trapshooters, but it’s been my experience that most of us would do it as follows:

As you suspect, since we pre-mount our guns in Trapshooting, that’s exactly what we’ll do when shooting at a pattern plate. We want to simulate shooting at a trap target. So, we don’t whip the gun to our shoulder from the low-gun position and fire quickly. That’s not how most of us shoot trap, so it’s not how we would check a trap gun’s POI. At the pattern plate, we basically try to duplicate the same shooting style and gun movement we use when shooting actual trap targets.

For those trapshooters who check POI via this method, they shoot from the standing position exactly as if they were on a trapfield, and the gun is pre-mounted. Some folks aim carefully (and likely use a careful trigger squeeze), but others deem it better to make a little upward movement with the gun (like they would on a rising trap target) and fire at the aiming mark on the pattern plate while the gun is moving upward at what they judge to be their “normal” move to a rising trap target = they hit the trigger just like on a real target.


That is what I was trying to get at. Sorry for the confusion. I was thinking your statement would be what I was planing on hearing.

Thanks for the info.

I am switching to a pre mount gun for SC as Bill McGuire shoots. I also bought a new gun and thought that this would be the best way to find POI for me.

Regards

Slim




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 1bluehorse, 37armer, aaronberls, agdchi, Bing [Bot], Bob in Maine, bob9125, BobK, Brad F, Brute1963, budpalumbo, budrock56, Bug Doc, Capt D, Carrier Joe, chuckyl, daspope, David S., donzduck, Down Range Manufacturing, Drew Hause, duckqwacker, er318, Excellent959, gicts, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, hlj3, hubel458, HymieP, idropd1, IheartShotguns, jer901, Joe Eddie, jwright37043, Ksprayberry, Levi 42, LuckyStrikeV, maj2693, Majestic-12 [Bot], miklm, mpolans, Ned Fall, NEF308, NimrodRx, Northern Skies, oldtechshooter, oregunner, ParacordPaul, railroad, Road Man, RudyN, sfisk, shellback, shellshock, skeetldoo, Spirit, SuperXThree, Susitna, target johnny, TheNorthport1, Tijeras_Slim, Trapshooter1977, Will Fennell, woc1963, Woolly Bugger, Yahoo [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group     -  DMCA Notice