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 Post subject: 20 Gauge Semi-Auto for Youth
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:47 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Mid-Michigan
Hello - first time post here! I'm looking to get my kids a 20 gauge semi-auto gas shotgun. They are pretty young but are pretty leary of recoil. They are good with shooting a muzzle loader with 50 grains no problem, but I mistakingly got them a cheap, single shot 410 which they don't like because of the recoil, and of course the 15-20 yard range. This new gun will be pretty much used for turkeys and occasionally small game. These are young kids, 8, 7, 5, so I need to go with something in a short LOP, 24-26" barrel, recoil pad and some small loads. I'm ok with getting a youth stock or having to swap one out either way when they get older. Also, since this will mainly be for turkey, I want one with changable chokes so I can put a turkey choke on it. I can't pay the upper prices of the Benelli's, but here are some that I'm considering;

Remington 1100 LT-20
CZ 720 Youth
Weatherby SA-08 Youth
TriStar Viper G2 Youth
Winchester SA-20 Youth

Please weigh in with any suggestions or experiences you may have.




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 Post subject: Re: 20 Gauge Semi-Auto for Youth
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:09 pm
Posts: 55
Finding a left handed Remington 1100 is a pretty tall order. There are some used ones out there, but they are rare. Also the 1100 is a very heavy gun. I'm not sure 7 and 8 year olds can handle it. If they could, the extra weight will be great for reducing the recoil, but I think shooting it unsupported is unlikely until they are older. The only other gun on your list I have experience with is the TriStar Viper. Actually the ones I have experience with are Escorts, but I swear they come off the same assembly line in Turkey. We have 5 of them for our 4-H program. I have been very happy with them. The stock can be shimmed to several lengths, they have been ultra dependable, and other than failing to cycle with ultra-light reduced recoil loads, they have always worked flawlessly. I was very skeptical of them when I heard we got a bunch of $300 guns, but they have made me a believer.

Don


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 Post subject: Re: 20 Gauge Semi-Auto for Youth
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:47 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Mid-Michigan
No lefty required, LT-20 is a model number for Light Weight. I hadn't looked at the Escorts or heard of them until you mentioned them, but worth a look none the less. Since this will be for turkey, I'm just a little leery about going with a 22" barrel. Going to keep them on my list. There seem to be a lot of good options, it's hard to choose... Thanks for the input. Oh, for the most part they use a bi-pod or tri-pod so I'm not too worried about weight.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 Gauge Semi-Auto for Youth
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:40 am 
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SpiderWebb wrote:
They are pretty young but are pretty leary of recoil. They are good with shooting a muzzle loader with 50 grains no problem, but I mistakingly got them a cheap, single shot 410 which they don't like because of the recoil, and of course the 15-20 yard range.


As eager as you and they are, I would strongly caution you to wait a year or more like 3 years or more. Your kids could be huge, but most 5, 7 & 8 year olds that I know are far too small to shoot a shotgun yet. And though shooting off of a bi-pod helps them control a gun that is otherwise too heavy for them, shooting a shotgun while aiming it seems to augment recoil more than when you are shooting it at a moving target. Factor in turkey loads and I worry they may never want to pick up a shotgun again. You already took one misstep with the .410, and I worry this is just going to compound the mistake.

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 Post subject: Re: 20 Gauge Semi-Auto for Youth
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:47 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Mid-Michigan
So are you really saying you don't think there is a suitable turkey (or shotgun in general) for young kids? I couldn't disagree more (With the gas operation, shorter LOP's, shorter barrels, lighter weights). I'll agree to disagree. But regardless, I appreciate the input.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 Gauge Semi-Auto for Youth
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:44 pm 
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SpiderWebb wrote:
So are you really saying you don't think there is a suitable turkey (or shotgun in general) for young kids?


No, I am very aware of many of the different youth models out there for 'young kids'. I went through this process with my two sons (now 15 & 17) and am anxiously waiting for my 6 year old to go shooting with me.

Our difference in opinion is that I think I am more conservative on when I think they may be old enough, or more accurately large enough, to shoot a shotgun. I don't know your kids, you do, but most of the 5, 7 & 8 year old kids I know are, IMHO, too small to absorb the recoil that a even a 20 gauge semi-auto is going to deal out. Not to say they shouldn't shoot, or even go hunting with you, just that the recoil from a 20 gauge may be too much right now. You have already run into an issue with a .410 single shot, and though I agree with you 100% that a gas operated semi-auto is the best choice to help reduce perceived recoil I still worry if your kids are about average size and already sensitive recoil that it may still be too much.

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 Post subject: Re: 20 Gauge Semi-Auto for Youth
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:47 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Mid-Michigan
I can appreciate all of that, really I can. I just don't agree with it, given my kids history with guns, hunting, target shooting, etc... They've all had a good deal of exposure to shooting, it's just the 410 with 3" loads that caught their attention... I'm confident I can get a semi-auto 20 to put out similar recoil to that of their muzzleloader with 50-100 grains (50 for target, 100 for hunting) by using loads that will only produce roughly 8 ft. lbs of recoil for target loads (and possibly using them for turkey too). They've already had a good deal of success hunting and are really excited to stay with it, I just want them to be more comfortable. They would keep shooting turkeys and practicing even if I didn't change anything. So again, I appreciate the input, but this point is mute.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 Gauge Semi-Auto for Youth
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:54 am
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Location: Illinois
Something to consider, A load light enough for your kids to shoot comfortably probably won't cycle the action of a semi-auto. Just saying.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 Gauge Semi-Auto for Youth
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:47 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Mid-Michigan
rico1153 wrote:
Something to consider, A load light enough for your kids to shoot comfortably probably won't cycle the action of a semi-auto. Just saying.


I think I'm going to try it with the Weatherby SA-08. It has 2 gas cylinders, one for light and one for heavy loads. And to be honest, for the foreseeable future, I won't be putting more that 1 round in the gun anyway. My objectives are to give them a low recoil gun and improve their chances with longer ranges at a turkey. We had many encounters with them in the 25-40 yard range the last couple seasons, but the 410 was questionable at 20 yards, 15 yards or less was acceptable, with a 2.5 or 3" load... If I in fact go with that model, I'll report back how it does during the break in time. Thank you for the input!


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 Post subject: Re: 20 Gauge Semi-Auto for Youth
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:05 am
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I agree with Sripersonfly....most kids that young are jut too small, even for the youth shotguns. I understand your passion and desire to get them out in the field, but sometimes you have to slow down and let the kids grow up some. My son was 11 before he could really hold up a shotgun and control it. I still kept him involved though...on turkey hunts, he worked the call, and brought the birds into us. For shooting prior to that, we stuck with a .22lr.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 Gauge Semi-Auto for Youth
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:47 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Mid-Michigan
Then I don't recommend you tell your son that my 5 year old already started hunting turkeys this spring (and calls them...), will start hunting deer this fall, and has been shooting a muzzleloader all summer long with no problems out to 75 yards with 40-50 grains. That my 7 year old shot his first turkey this spring with the 410, and shot his first deer (at age 6) last winter with the muzzleloader. And that my oldest boy shot his first deer last winter on his 8th birthday, again with the muzzleloader.

Controlling a shotgun??? Give a kid a rest to use... I don't even shoot without a rest, weather it's a tree, uni-pod, bi-pod, tri-pod, my knee, laying down, etc..., why would I make them? They are shooting to kill, not to see if they are man enough to handle holding the gun up, needlessly, on their own (for deer and turkey anyway).

They've been shooting a bow and bb-guns since they could carry them, been shooting 22's since they were 4, and the muzzleloader and 410 since they were 5. Slow them down? No thanks. They love hunting/shooting and are doing just fine.

So yet again, I appreciate the concern and the input, but this point is mute...


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 Post subject: Re: 20 Gauge Semi-Auto for Youth
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:05 am
Posts: 268
SpiderWebb wrote:
Slow them down? No thanks. They love hunting/shooting and are doing just fine.

So yet again, I appreciate the concern and the input, but this point is mute...


So you come to a board and ask for opinions, and when you get opinions that are different than what you want to hear, you get pissy...got it.

SpiderWebb wrote:
They are pretty young but are pretty leary of recoil. They are good with shooting a muzzle loader with 50 grains no problem, but I mistakingly got them a cheap, single shot 410 which they don't like because of the recoil


This doesn't sound like they are "doing just fine".

SpiderWebb wrote:
They've been shooting a bow and bb-guns since they could carry them, been shooting 22's since they were 4, and the muzzleloader and 410 since they were 5.


If they are doing so fine with this, then why the post asking for suggestions and saying that the .410 was a mistake? Why post that the recoil bothers them?

My son hunts things with a shotgun other than turkey. No using a rest for dove, duck, rabbit, squirrel, or sporting clays. He used a shotgun when he was big enough to handle it. He took hunters ed, carried his own gun in the field, loaded it himself... Your kids are not big enough, plain and simple. My son does not have a flinch and is not recoil sensitive. We have no bad habits that we have to correct because he was shooting a firearm that he was not big enough to handle. You asked for advice, we gave it. You can choose to follow it or not, your kids, no skin off my nose. But next time, just go do whatever the hell you want and not ask for advice, if you aren't even going to consider it, and just want to puff up and tell me that your kid is better than mine.


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 Post subject: Re: 20 Gauge Semi-Auto for Youth
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:47 pm
Posts: 22
Location: Mid-Michigan
Yeah, keep answering questions with information that you want to give, other than what is asked and this is what you will get... Did you even read any of the post before you decided to answer with your philosophy? Give me an answer that has nothing to do with anything but your own beliefs on something I didn't ask and I'll tell you mine. Now we're even...

"Please weigh in with any suggestions or experiences you may have.", didn't mean I'm considering having them not shoot a shotgun for the next 3-6 years. Please...

"sometimes you have to slow down and let the kids grow up some". You took your jab, I took mine.

"He took hunters ed, carried his own gun in the field, loaded it himself... Your kids are not big enough, plain and simple." Wow! They can't push the ramrod on a muzzy. Great point! LOL

"My son does not have a flinch and is not recoil sensitive." Neither do they. Thus the "original" point of this thread, to keep it that way. Another great point!

I'm doing it again now, retaliating that is. I'm going to stop it now. Feel free to send a few more my way and then let's consider it done.? I had thought I made my position clear enough, but apparently I didn't. I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me. I'm ok leaving it at that, of course, after you counter my counters. Are you? And one last thing, I don't think they are better than yours, I just don't agree with your philosophy that you stated, and that is the only retort that I have to use, is measuring where they are and what they have done. That just really wasn't my goal at all with that. It was aimed at you, not your son. Ok?


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 Post subject: Re: 20 Gauge Semi-Auto for Youth
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:05 am
Posts: 268
Nah, nevermind....your kids, your money....you won't listen anyway. After you get that Weatherby, take those boys down to a skeet range to a qualified shotgun instructor and ask them if that gun fits those boys. I already know the answer.

{hs#




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