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 Post subject: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:20 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:41 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Central Texas
Did they make a gun in this style? I was in a pawn shop and they had a 20 ga. marked full choke with an approximately 22 inch barrel. The stock was shorter also. It looked to be a very old model. The forend was ok but the stock was very worn. Metal was sanded down to a shiny silver all over. The barrel had a bead sight on it but appeared to be very thin at the end. It was marked nickel steel on the barrel but I didn't check the chamber length. I only had about 2 min. to look at it since they were closing. It was a very compact gun and felt good to handle. I was wondering what to offer. They said that it was guaranteed to work. I was looking in the classifieds and only saw one that looked like it and it was marked 1922. Is the chamber length marked on the barrels that are shorter than 2 3/4 inch? Any help would be appreciated and I will get the serial number next time I can get in there.




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 Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:52 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:34 pm
Posts: 1344
Location: Louisiana
Obviously an older Model 12 that has been altered. Before 1927, the chamber lengths in the 20 gauge Model 12s were 2.5 inches, in '27 they changed to the 2.75 inch chambers. With a 22 inch barrel, it's obvious that it's been cut. The gun may be mechanically sound, but the cut barrel kills value. If you want a Model 12 for a youngster, the gun could be good but you would have to address the issue of chamber length and you would also have a cylinder choked gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:17 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:41 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Central Texas
I am not wanting it for a youngster. I wanted it for myself but did not know if any Model 12's were made with a 22 inch barrel and labeled full choke. The stock is really rough but I thought that if I could get it cheap enough, then I could use it to plink with or for home defense. I like the fact that you can hold the trigger down and keep pumping. You can't do that with any of the others. They have it priced at $400 and came down to $300. I think I can get it a lot cheaper.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:42 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:24 pm
Posts: 809
IIRC, SGW member Researcher posted that Winchester used the nickel steel 20 GA. barrels up into the switch to the 2 3/4 inch chamber era to use up left over barrels. With the barrel being cut, the chamber could have possibly been lengthened as well but, you'll never know until you measure it. If Winchester made the shotgun's chamber 2 3/4, they would have marked it as a 2 3/4 inch gun on the barrel or on the barrel attachment. As Winchester 1912 has said the barrel being cut, along with the cut down stock, and the description you give of the condition of the finish has pretty well killed the value of the shotgun. If you can get it cheap enough, it could be made into a good shooter.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:11 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:56 am
Posts: 6834
Location: Maryland
$100


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:17 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:24 pm
Posts: 809
Hollow point wrote:
I like the fact that you can hold the trigger down and keep pumping. You can't do that with any of the others.

The Winchester model 1897/97 and the early Ithaca model 37 will fire like that as well as the Winchester model 1912/12.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:14 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:41 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Central Texas
I checked out the gun today and it has a 4 digit number starting with a 7. I am pretty sure the barrel had a 2.5 inch chamber. I just don't know exactly how to tell if it was lengthened to 2.75. Will a 2.75 inch shell shoot safely in a barrel chambered for 2.5 inch shells? They said it was graranteed to shoot or your money back. He quoted me $150 walk out price. I put a tape measure down the chamber but I couldn't feel a ridge where the chamber ends. Does it just taper out or what? Any help would be appreciated. I like the looks of this little compact gun. The action seems to function good and it is tight. I measured the barrel and it is 23 inches with a bead sight on the muzzle.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:44 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:56 am
Posts: 6834
Location: Maryland
The short chambered 20 gauge Model 12 will function well with 2 3/4" shells. Don't use high velocity shells, but any standard velocity shells should be fine and safe.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:53 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:41 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Central Texas
Thanks for the info. I really appreciate all the help yall have given me.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:20 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:44 pm
Posts: 934
Location: Kansas
I had Simmons re-work a similar gun for me , This model 12 was my Dad's first shotgun that my Grandpa bottom for him . Qauil were very plentiful in NE Kansas back in the 50's and 60's so they had the barrel cut down to 25'' and the length of pull around 12''. Not very good dimension for an adult so I bought new wood for it , had a solid rib installed and Briley put thin wall choke tubes in it .

Shot teal with #6 Bismuth , a limit of 4 pheasants with it a few years back including my first double in quite some time . Lot's of quail pheasants and dove and a few ducks.

Model 12 were high volume trap guns back in the day I don't see why you would need to feed them light loads . I shoot 1200 fps hunting loads out of mine , still a very tight gun.

_________________
''Brush,Bobwhites & Brittanies''


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:37 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 37
Location: Missouri
Hollow Point, To measure the barrel length : Close the action and let the end of the tape measure rest against the bolt face. I believe for the year of gun you are looking at, 25" is standard. A 4 digit serial number beginning with 7 was made in 1913.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:01 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:04 pm
Posts: 129
Location: Ontario, Canada
20 gauge 2-1/2" shells are available. see Short Shells. I have personally used the Gamebore shells in a 1913 20 gauge that I used to own.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:08 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:41 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Central Texas
The barrel length is not all that important to me. It is the chamber length that I was concerned with. If Brittman is shooting higher velocity loads out of the 2.5 inch chamber, then I assume that it will work. I was just wondering how to check the chamber length.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:12 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:41 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Central Texas
I bought the gun for $150 walk out. I checked the chamber and it was at least 2 3/4 inches. The stock had not been cut off and after looking closer, all the wood is really in good shape to be 100 years old. The butt plate has a small chip off one corner. The barrel is 23 inches long. It has a plug to make it hold only 3 shells. I cleaned the barrel and action and took it out to shoot today. It functioned flawlessly. I don't know the choke with that length barrel and we could only find 3 clay targets for the machine to throw. I hit all of them. I also fired a 3 round burst with the trigger held down and it worked perfectly that way too. I can't wait to try it out on doves less than 2 weeks from now. I think it is worth at least the amount I paid. I thought about getting it blued but I think it looks neat with the shiny finish. I really like this neat little gun. Some day when I get time (probably in the winter), I will try to post pictures. Thanks again for all the help.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:03 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 37
Location: Missouri
Good Deal, worth every bit of $150. {hs#


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 12 youth model 20 ga.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:35 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:09 pm
Posts: 5
As you may have confirmed assuming your 2-1/2" chamber has not been lengthened, modern 2-3/4" shells will feed, fire, and eject in short chamber Model 12s (a loaded 20ga round is 2-1/2" long). However, be aware that if your chamber hasn't been lengthened the crimp of your shells will be opening into the forcing cone, which some people claim can produce increased pressures. I think you would do well to heed lowgun's advice and stay away from heavy loads. A 7/8 oz dove or clays load at 1200 fps or less should be OK. Personally, I would want to know for sure if the chamber had been lengthened or not. If not, I second climac's suggestion of using the Gamebore ammo. Polywad is another option.

Also, while you may not be concerned about barrel length per se, it does bear on the question of whether you have any choke left in this barrel. A Model 12 barrel is 1" longer than the distance from the muzzle to the junction between the receiver and the barrel assembly. If that's how you measured, your barrel is actually 24" long, which would mean that it's only had 1" cut off, and may still have a little bit of constriction, maybe equivalent of IMP CYL.




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