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 Post subject: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:51 pm 
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A gun shop local to me has a very nice SX1 for sale under consignment. The gun has two barrels: one skeet 26 inch and one trap 30 inch. The receiver appears to be roll stamp engraved and there is a Winchester rubber butt pad. The whole package is priced at $795 which seems a bit high to me. I've seen field guns with one barrel go for around $400 in similar condition. What would be a fair price? There is no box and no papers. Blueing is near perfect and no dings on the wood. Wood is nicely figured but not what I would call high grade. Bolt face appears to be nearly perfect. Looks to have been fired very little. LOP is 14 1/4.

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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:42 pm 
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Without seeing it and based on your description of it being rather high condition, I think that's a very fine price, personally. T

his is not a field grade we are talking about, skeet barrels are dear, and having the full trap is a plus.

What kind of stock is on it...skeet, straight trap, or MC trap. Or is it field grade (only has two points rather than three on the grip checkering)?

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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:50 pm 
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It is not a Monte Carlo trap stock. I shouldered the gun and it felt like a skeet stock. I did not measure the drop. I will stop by and look more closely and take some measurements.

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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:01 pm 
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At first blush, I thought it just might be the one I "had"!

Had being the key word here, but no, mine was without any roll stamping.
And it was a Monte Carlo stock.
It also went quite a ways from this part of the country when I sold it.

And now for the sad part, I wish that I had what proceeded it back!

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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Jug, I thought about you when I looked at it. We shot yesterday at Harrisonville. Wish you had been there. Next week we start at 1:00. Should I buy the gun?

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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:58 pm 
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casonet wrote:
Jug, I thought about you when I looked at it. We shot yesterday at Harrisonville. Wish you had been there. Next week we start at 1:00. Should I buy the gun?

Raining here, yesterday and tonight.
Didn't work or play outdoors.

Should you buy it?
Depends on what you want it for.
Collector? Price seems pretty fair, depending on pedigree and maybe S/N range.

Shooter? Same pedigree and S/N range apply.
They point really good, but are quite heavy.
Build and workmanship are superb for the build timeframe.
But by today's standards, the design is antique in comparison to name brand autos.

I figure that I made a pretty costly mistake, but with all the hullaballu about what a wonder gun they are, I just had to find out.

Lesson learned.

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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:36 pm 
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Yeah, I hear you. Same can be said about the Model 12, but I'd still rather have one than any of the newer more modern pump designs of today.

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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:59 pm 
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From the left coast. I'd say that's a fair price for a trap stocked SX-1.

Consider the rubber pad, skeet had a plastic plate. roll engraved, that's either skeet or trap, unless the serial number is above 86,000. The barrels, if the ribs aren't held down by a screw, if in good condition can sell for $200-$250. So if you want it, flash some cash :) Just remember to order 5 buffers, why, you might end up buying more.

Mine is a field grade, I prefer the narrow forend, It's my winter 5 stand gun & I'm not afraid to loan it out, it's a soft shooter.

Notime2


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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:26 pm 
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I would say its at least a fair price.... I am new to shooting one but not new to seeing them and other folks shooting them like back in the 70's on skeet fields and some trap.

If you dont want it tell me about it because I might be interested in it.....

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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:02 am 
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I say buy it!

So here's my logic-

The gun is in nice shape, in fact, HIGH CONDITION for a 30+ year old firearm and has been used very little (easily $400 plus). It has a decent, nicely figured, and far better than the average plain Jane field stock. No visible wear or scratches, dings or dents (that's worth an extra $100 to my way of thinking!). A Skeet barrel is a giant bonus and the 30" trap barrel with full choke, if ribbed, is an easy $250. Convert that barrel to Mod or, better yet, Light Mod and you have the perfect Sporter. Save additional time (assuming yours, like mine, is worth money) and hassle by not having to spend weeks or months trying to find a 30" barrel in similar lightly used, mar free condition for Sporting Clays. Yes, and trust me on this one, you will want and eventually have to have one... then save additional money on postage for shipping said barrel once you finally find one that is suitable.

Now go and offer the owner a reasonable price that is customarily in the range of negotiation on a gun in this price range, say $50- $75 less than full price. He will be expecting that... and under no circumstance should you be ridiculously offensive in your initial offer. The worse he can say is, "No thank you", but in my experience, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Chances are he knows that an SX-1 is a classic shotgun of exceptionally high quality and not a POS worthy of a low ball offer. He will realize that you know this too, and should be more than happy to entertain a reasonable offer because he would like to see this beautiful shotgun go into the right home where it will be loved, well taken care of. and best of all, shot by an SX-1 "enthusiast".

Last, but not least, don't wait until it's too late (someone in the know will be along shortly to buy it out from underneath you for $795) and spend lots of time over the next several years kicking yourself in the a$$ for not buying the gun when you had the opportunity. In that eventuality you will convince yourself that you would now HAPPILY pay an additional $100 if you had the chance to get another crack at that same gun... :)

Now you know why I am a shotgun addict.


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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:45 pm 
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Well, I went out today to look at the gun again and I bought it on the spot. Here's why. It seems to be a late production gun with a serial number of M259XX range. The magazine tube is chrome plated. The Skeet barrel is soldered at the muzzel end and the trigger seems to be the improved version. The stock is for all practical purposes a skeet stock from the drop at the comb and heel. It is HIGHLY figured. I did not remember it being so from my first visit and it is equipped with a Winchester rubber recoil pad. The trap barrel on the other hand is one of the older barrels as it has a screw at the muzzle end. The finish on the stock and the blueing are 99%. This is just the gun I had been looking for. The trap barrel is just a bonus. I went next door to Simmons and bought a new recoil buffer. I will clean the gun tonight and install the new buffer as I believe the one in the gun is original. Maybe I paid too much, but I'll probably never see one like this again so close to home. Next week, we will go to the skeet range. Thanks to all of you for your advise and information.

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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:10 am 
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If you don't want the trap barrel, I would love to buy it from you. Let me know. Thanks... Hugh


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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:00 am 
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Casonet - good for you! Now, this is absolutely not casting aspersions on your gun at all, this sounds like a great gun and I have one much like it. But, I speculate this is what you have; given that;

1. M259XX - this is not a late production serial number. This gun was probably made originally with screw in rib, stage one trigger, and blued mag tube.

2. The fact that the stock has the hard (hard as a rock) Win pad and is not a Monte Carlo says to me its most likely a straight trap stock. Skeet stocks had the useless hard plastic butt plate.

3. The trap barrel has a screw in the rib, the skeet barrel does not

4. The gun has a SS mag tube

My speculation is that this gun started life as a trap gun with a straight trap stock and that someone added a skeet barrel and the SS mag tube upgrade. If indeed the gun has a stage three trigger, then this was an upgrade also for this serial number range.

None of which is bad....you didn't buy this gun to be a NIB collector (and I'm not sure there really is much of an SX-1 "collector grade" market outside of the small number of factory engraved guns) and all of this makes great sense for someone who is putting together a nice shooter. Like I said, I have guns that were originally trap where I upgraded the gas system parts and fitted some extra barrels. Personally, MC trap stocks fit me best. I have these guns with both stage 1 and stage 3 triggers and they are both fine.

Cheers and congrats again.

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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:39 pm 
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Thanks for your analysis. After I posted, further research confirms that my gun was probably not late production. The stock is pistol grip. The reason that I believe that it is not a trap stock is the fact that the drop at the heel is in excess of 2 inches and about 1 1/4 inch at the comb. The mag tube is NOT stainless steel. It appears to be chrome plated. The trigger is stage one but breaks nicely. Who knows how it began, but I'm very happy with it.

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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:50 am 
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Of the five I own only one has stage 3 trigger. I prefer stage one, as one of the larger Super X-1 reminded me in part the later trigger was a good bit cheaper for Winchester to make.

After looking at the price Super X-1 really move at, it seems Target guns ( roll engraved) in good condition $650-850 depending on wood and barrel /choke. I know field guns move cheaper but I've never bought one. I think you hit a home run if you figure $650-700 for gun $200-250 for extra barrel.


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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:19 am 
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Quote:
The reason that I believe that it is not a trap stock is the fact that the drop at the heel is in excess of 2 inches and about 1 1/4 inch at the comb. The mag tube is NOT stainless steel. It appears to be chrome plated.


Those are indeed straight trap stock dimensions. They don't put your head quite as high as a MC stock does, but much higher than a SX1 skeet stock does. They are perfect for some trap shooters.

They did put chrome-plated mag tubes on some guns.

I would say Jugchoke's head has parts in that are far more obsolete than the SX1's. :s I see every popular semi-auto ever made shot in high volumes month after month, year after year. There is no semi-auto out there that functions as reliably or that breaks less frequently than the SX1. Benellis may hold up as well but they are not gas op'd and are so light in weight that they kick the devil out of you. They also usually cannot be made to be reliable with anything but big-kicking loads. A400's aren't even close.

The SX1 30" Trap's weight is almost perfect for a target gun. I make them absolutely perfect by adding 4 oz. to the stock.

If it makes you feel any better I gladly paid over $800 for a gun identical to yours but with only the 30" trap barrel.


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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:22 am 
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Coach Super-X wrote:

I would say Jugchoke's head has parts in that are far more obsolete than the SX1's. :s I see every popular semi-auto ever made shot in high volumes month after month, year after year. There is no semi-auto out there that functions as reliably or that breaks less frequently than the SX1. .

And I would say that your head is plumb full of exactly the same stuff the Christmas goose was, before the oyster dressing.

But then, that is nothing that was not apparent from the first post you ever made.

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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:35 am 
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Thanks. I don't typically associate a true trap stock with those dimensions. I have true skeet guns with stocks that are very close to those dimensions. Shouldering the gun, the mid bead lines up sitting just under the front bead like a figure 8. As such, I would probably shoot under trap birds unless the gun naturally shoots high; haven't patterned it. Maybe I got a deal with the gun, regardless, I 've paid more for less gun.

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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:55 pm 
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Well, 1-1/4" x 2" is a heck of a lot higher than the 1-1/2" x 2-1/2" field dimensions that skeet has traditionally been shot with. (Not that I recommend that, just the opposite -- I have my skeet shooters train with trap stocks.) Here is mine which is currently on loan to a friend who I will be shooting with today. I'll try to remember to measure its drop.

Image

Image

Image

And of course Jugchoke is absolutely right about me having nothing but dressing in my cranium. Were it otherwise I would be yelling "Hear, hear!" every time someone smarter than me posts drivel bashing the SX1, instead of convincing more people to buy them! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: SX1 Valuation
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:40 pm 
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It wasn't dressing as you well know.

But to each his own.
After over sixty years with shotguns, and all the hullabaloo about the SX1, I just had to try one.

I said, and am totally convinced that in it's day, it really was the best auto out there.
And very well built with high dollar material.

But, it soon got outclassed by the Beretta autos, no buffers, no "O" rings and much more useful as well as dependable. The SX1 is gone, thankfully, but I still own three 303s. And four Benellis as well as a SX2 light. Gone are the 391s and the CZ 912.

Today it's out classed by even more usable models. Personally, I would equate them as just about even-steven, except for weight of course, with the CZ Huglu 912. (Still "O" rings, for God's sakes!)

Now, as a collector item, that's a different story.

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