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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:15 am 
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Posts: 159
Is the supernova a superior gun?


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:52 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 373
If I was looking for a new pump gun today it would be the super nova. It offers many of the same features that semi-auto shotguns do. Shims to adjust cast and drop of stock, different recoil pad options to adjust length, and different height comb inserts to adjust the stock fit while looking down the rib of the gun. The gun also has 3 1/2" chambers if you need to have that. The chevrons in the stock are there to help reduce recoil. Will it last longer than a 870 or 500? I doubt you will wear any of them out. The super nova has more features than the others.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:26 am 
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I have two wing masters about 30 & 25 years old bullet proof solid guns. My 870 cammo is most likely on par with the Express its 20 years old no issue at all. Its not the refind wing master but with use its now just as smooth when its racked. The trigger guard is plastic but I am not sure if and of parts are.

I would still be using my Wing masters except I now have berretta over/ unders in 20 & 28. And I can't go back might just need a 12ga 687 too.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:22 pm
Posts: 25
Sorry if I rocked anyone's boat but I clearly said "I have been a Remington (shotgun) user" for most of my life. The Sportsman 48 was purchased used in 1964? and is now owned by a friend- it has never "missed a beat" either. The only trouble it ever had was light-weight low base trap loads, but the fix was to turn a slip ring upside down...

The anti-Remington/ anti-Cerberus bashing comes with due reason: Remington, Marlin, and H & R's quality has all gone down the toilet. I don't care if you like Chryslers over Fords because you have always been a Chrysler guy, but the point is to take a critical look at what is being put on the shelves and ask why we are being offered up such shoddy products. If one wants to learn something NEW, then you at least can look at what is produced and make a connection. Like 2 + 2= 4...that's all I'm saying.

I know from personal experience that the Rem. repair facility is in Ilion, NY. The New England plant was closed a few years ago. The repair facility has twice sent me back a Marlin that was not properly fixed and a gunsmith concurred that they changed the forearm connection AFTER the Freedom Group took control of Remington & bought up Marlin... That rifle then got sold...When corners get cut, product quality suffers!

There may be some Remington products that are great, but for my money I'm staying away. I really like my new SXP, but for the slight wear mark above the trigger guard after 1 month. If I send it to Winchester and they make the repair or put a new receiver on the gun, I will be tickled pink. If not, and they jerk me around, then they go on my sh.. list too.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:08 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:41 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Creedmoor, NC
Doorknob wrote:
SWMissourian wrote:
2. I have noticed that the 500 rusts easily. Much more easily than the 870.


I have read many threads on here that suggest just the opposite!


I can tell you from experience that my son's 870 express rusted promptly after a wet swan hunt. We shoved it in the case after the hunt and hurried home. When we got home a few hours later it was a mess. The matte finish is just some kinda blasted finish that has been blued. Moisture gets down in the nooks and crannies of the finish and if you do get rust in there it's hard to clean out.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:01 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Oregon
A good alternative to a new 870 Express is a used Wingmaster. About the same cost, functionally the same gun, but the fit and finish is much nicer. A used Wingmaster will not loose any additional value unless it gets trashed.

My used 20 ga Wingmaster set me back all of $250, looks great, works perfect, and shoots where it is pointed. And it would take a bit more than $250 to get me to part with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:02 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:49 pm
Posts: 1132
Location: St. Louis, MO
I bought a Remington Express 20 ga. last year at Cabela's, and have been very satisfied. Zero problems and 100% function. I've fired about two cases, mostly skeet, but some hunting.

For skeet, I like a CYLINDER choke tube. It didn't come with one, so I bought an extra choke tube for $20. Works great!

I don't understand some basher's comments about rust on these guns. The external finish is "matte" but I don't know if it is parkerizing or just sandblast (non-polished) blue. Anyhow, I have not had any rust appear. But I clean my shotguns after each usage, and NONE of them rust.

Overall I think the 870 Express is a good bargain shotgun.

gold40


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:49 pm
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Location: St. Louis, MO
Here is a recent photo of my 870 Express 870 20 gauge....

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:26 am 
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In my experience the newer Expresses are finished better than those of recent years. I cannot speak to Marlin or H&R, but I have heard of some difficulties out of the NC plant where they moved that production. I think the whole issue of quality control on Remington shotguns has been hugely overblown.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:22 pm
Posts: 25
gold40 wrote:
I don't understand some basher's comments about rust on these guns. The external finish is "matte" but I don't know if it is parkerizing or just sandblast (non-polished) blue.
Overall I think the 870 Express is a good bargain shotgun.

gold40


Why do people who are critical of today's American company's that consistently produce 'some' low quality products get the nickname "Basher"? Those who are critical of what we buy or who expect high quality are just being honest. Back in the day, a bargain shotgun would be of high quality in all the essentials that are not cosmetic- like dual beads, ventilated rib, glossy stock, etc. Today's bargain guns are of lower quality than ever before, and frankly, Remington is among the worst in this regard.
We live in a global market-place and since profits come first in anything, it's not hard to figure out why Remington wants to stay in the game at making bargain products. I'm certain a Remington Wingmaster may be of much better quality, so pay your money and get a good one. Trust me, Remington has the money to make a better low-end shotgun, it's just that bean-counters run the show, decide on low wages, quality control, etc. Now if people are saying buy American just because, then you may be wearing loin clothes and deer hide coats pretty soon...If you want to have that discussion, I doubt this is the place to do it...

I will buy the Baikal SxS 20 ga. over a Mossberg Silver Reserve because it's a better product for hard field use at half the cost. For $100 more will I get one with a few more options like a nickel receiver? Perhaps, but that's a budget decision. Since a double barreled gun is so hard to make right, the American companies have all left the field: a used Stevens 311 is all one might find, and I hardly recall a Stevens as being anywhere near the quality of a Remington- back in the day.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:01 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Oregon
Quote:
Is the supernova a superior gun?


When I was purchasing my first pump gun, this was the question I asked. After acquiring the Super Nova I can say it is well designed, well built, reliable, durable, and a good value, but . . . .

I could not easily hit anything with it and no matter which shims, recoil pad combination, I could never get it to fit. I have killed ducks, pheasants, chukars, and quail with it, but not consistently. I let a friend use it and he couldn't miss.

So what is a superior gun? That depends on your needs. I now have a 30 year old, fixed choke, 20 ga Wingmaster LW that was half the price of the Super Nova. And for me, it hits where I point it. Both are very good guns, but when it comes to pumps, the Wingmaster is what I now use. The Super Nova went away to fund yet another purchase.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:49 pm
Posts: 1132
Location: St. Louis, MO
simonsez quote: "Remington is among the worst in this regard."

This statement isn't supported by any evidence. Have you owned and used a Remington Express 870? I have, and I'm very satisfied with the quality. Years ago, i owned an 870 Wingmaster 12 gauge and it was also a good shotgun. The older Wingmaster had nicer finish, real walnut, and cut checkering instead of the impressed checkering on the current 870 Express -- but no functional difference. Both met my needs. I suspect most of the parts are interchangeable between the two models; they appear to be.

Many years ago, when I was a kid, my mother taught all her children: "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all"....I think that is still good advice. A person that violates this rule might well be called "A BASHER".

gold40


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 1987
Location: MO
Most people like to know if something they are considering has issues. Telling the truth about the quality of something isn't bashing, it's helping someone decide if it's worth buying or not. Sure wish someone had told me about the problems with a certain Ford product before I bought it some years back. Some Remington products have quality control issues, most are fixable though. One needs to know so they can make an informed decision.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:03 pm 
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Oldfarmer wrote:
Most people like to know if something they are considering has issues. Telling the truth about the quality of something isn't bashing, it's helping someone decide if it's worth buying or not. Sure wish someone had told me about the problems with a certain Ford product before I bought it some years back. Some Remington products have quality control issues, most are fixable though. One needs to know so they can make an informed decision.

I agree with this.
Some 12 gauge Expresses have had issues with rougher than acceptable chambers. BUT, I have also seen Mossbergs and even BPSs being beat on the ground with the Winchester Universal shells. It appears this has been fixed on the newer production. It is easily fixed by honing the chamber, or calling Remington if it was purchased new ( I have even known of them addressing it on a used purchase)
Some people lament about exterior rusting issues. My opinion is this was caused by the bluing salts not being fully removed by the factory salt rinse bath, probably exacerbated by the rough matte finish, or maybe by not changing the bath frequently enough. Some people slather them with oil and the problem persists. I cured two by washing everything with warm soapy water, then drying, then a light oiling. Oil is not a solvent for bluing salts, water is. So is Ballistol - and if you cut yourself it's supposed to be good for that too.
I am not aware of any other pervasive issues with any other models of Remington shotguns that are more frequent than those arising occasionally with any manufacturer. I did also encounter an 11-87 Sportsman that had the exterior rust issue, and the guy shot some of my Ballistol on the barrel, and when that worked he washed the whole gun later. (I do not think Ballistol is a superior rust preventative due to it's water solubility)
I used to sell guns. I cannot recall any repeater model by any manufacturer that was ever completely trouble free. Some very well known and well respected models by manufacturers other than Remington and Mossberg had quite a few issues, but they were handled by the manufacturer, although not without some hassle, and often. Remington and Mossberg were by far the easiest manufacturers to deal with when it came to rectifying issues.
EDIT- Forgot, I also saw two Remington barrels with rib issues right after they went to the new pattern on top of the rib. In both cases, a call netted a replacement barrel with zero hassle, so apparently they were aware of it. Last two I got were perfect. I do NOT like the new top of the rib pattern, but that's just my opinion. Waaay too aggressive in my book. Don't fix what a'int broke.

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I do not trust Remington's dating service accuracy. If they were Match.com, you could end up with Nancy Pelosi.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:05 am 
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Remington put out an autoloader that doesn't work(105cti) the followup was recalled as soon as it launched and has all sorts of QC issues, and consistently screws up guns that it has produced 10 million+, but hey its QC problems are overrated :roll:
The apologists on this board are amazing.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:51 pm 
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Clink, you just dislike Remington, and you usually get ostentatious and call anyone who likes them fanboys. I have owned guns that cost 20 times what an 1100 costs, and I have shot a $100k+ shotgun, and I still prefer some Remingtons to actually shoot over just about anything else, so I am most certainly am a fan.
The question was asked relative to current quality of a particular model, and an attempt was made to provide relevant information; factual to the best of my knowledge. What does the late lamented CTi have to do with a 20 gauge Express? Nothing. Name anyone who has produced over 14 million of anything over 60 years and never had any problems. Remington has changed various things on the Expresses to compete, cost wise. Some of them didn't work out all that well, but I fail to understand why that gets a lot of people totally bent out of shape. It is their bottom of the line model. Add to that most of the people who appear to be most bent out of shape wouldn't buy an Express, or even any Express level gun, to begin with, and if they did, they have the wherewithal to correct a rough chamber anyway. And Remington factory service is as good as it gets to help anyone who doesn't know what they are doing, too.
I do not own an Express. I did, but I couldn't live with the looks. I killed two geese with the first two shots I ever fired out of it, but it had to go. I do think it is an excellent choice for someone who wants to get a proven pump for as little money as they can stand.
There are risks when you go cheap. I used to have a box of metal safeties for Mossbergs when I was selling guns, and I would replace them and add it to the price before I would sell one, but that issue practically gets ignored while people moan endlessly because the rough as a cob finish on the Express frequently rusted easily. Beretta owns Stoeger, but they get no blame whatsoever for the countless issues that have persisted, and still persist, with their cheap two barrel guns. The infamous Benelli "Click" has been almost universally dismissed as a figment of someones imagination, and the brutal recoil without the recoil reducing stocks, "Oh it just doesn't fit right". I also recall several persistent issues with Beretta autos through time that have all been forgotten with the onslaught of new models. "Oh yeah, there is a carrier problem, but you can replace it." Beretta uses plastic and it gets called innovative, but if Remington does it it gets called cheap.
I do not claim Remington is perfect, far from it, but I also see a lot of flat out bias.

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I do not trust Remington's dating service accuracy. If they were Match.com, you could end up with Nancy Pelosi.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:23 am
Posts: 49
Location: NW IL
I bought an 870 Express, 20ga 28" barrel, back in 2011 for pheasant hunting. I had an express, 12ga 28", back in the mid-nineties and it was a workhorse.

While the newer express looks better with the laminated stock, it has not been as trouble free as its predecessor.

First issue was the fore-end stock. When you would slide it back, it would jam up against the receiver once pulled all the way rearward. The fix was simple, I just had to sand out the channel of the stock to give some actual clearance between it and the receiver. It was a simple fix like i said, but it definitely reflects onto quality control issues inside Remington.

The second issue popped up this past hunting season. The gun started having failure to feed issues between the second and third round, ie the last shell in the magazine. When I say failure to feed, the gun would totally lock up after the second shell was ejected. I tore the gun down, and did a very thorough cleaning. After the cleaning, the gun still jammed up on the last round at least 80% of the time. I dug back into it, and finally figured out what was going on. The magazine follower is extending too far into the receiver, and when you try to pump the action closed the shell carrier is catching the magazine follower. After looking around online, it seems to be a fairly common issue with most people recommending that you should replace the original plastic follower with an aftermarket metal follower. I have not done so yet, and it should be an easy fix. But, it is a fix that I shouldn't have to do. Remington, to save a buck, used a part that is inadequate.

Those are the only two things I have had a problem with. But both seem to point to a lower standard of quality and quality control. The previous 870 I had fired thousands of rounds without one hiccup of any kind. That track record is what lead me to purchase this 870. I will correct the follower issue, and keep this 870. However, I would really have to give some serious though before buying another NEW Remington shotgun. The quality might be better on the more expensive models, as they are trying to keep cost down on the express. I don't know for sure, but I would still be leery before laying down any more money.

Also, this is just my experience with the 870 express that I bought new. It only applies to my shotgun really, as they are all individuals. It might have been some issues that have since been resolved. Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:27 am
Posts: 695
Location: North Central West Virginia
I'm a long time Marlin and Remington owner, and you can't equate what recently happened with Marlin to the Remington line. Yes, they are both owned by the same parent company, but the changes to Marlin were basically a sale and gutting of the company. The guns are now being made by folks who had never used the equipment or built lever action guns before.

The same is not true of Remington. Sure, the cheaper line of guns are not cosmetically pleasing, at least to me. The 870 Express, the 11-87 are pretty homely guns, but they are all done that way to keep the price reasonable. The general public is not going to spend $1500 for a field shotgun, and most want to see guns in the $500 range.

I have said for many years, that's why we see all the plastic stocked guns. The spin on that is they are more durable, stronger, etc., etc. But the truth is they are cheaper to manufacture. To me the "real" guns are the 870 Wingmaster and the 1100. But the average hunter isn't going to pay those prices in today's economy.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:18 pm
Posts: 525
Location: Mendenhall,MS.
Virginian wrote:
I say horse hockey to most of the anti Remington, anti Cerberus propaganda. The more recent Expresses I have seen are better then their predecessors. I have zero experience with recent Marlins and H&Rs, but if I am informed correctly they are being produced in the newer North Carolina facility, whereas the Remington shotguns are still being produced in Ilion. Not many employees took the opportunity to relocate, so they have been training a whole new workforce in NC, and there have been some issues arising from that according to industry publications. I can tell you that training formerly non-industrial types in the intricacies of manufacturing is fraught with difficulties. Even good employees are faced with a whole different work environment.



Anything new from Remington is boat anchor material,everyone knows that,if you want a decent Remington product(shotgun or rifle) you better be buying used.Nothing they make today is worth a crap.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:36 am 
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I do not trust Remington's dating service accuracy. If they were Match.com, you could end up with Nancy Pelosi.


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