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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:16 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 523
+1 on Virginians post.




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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:29 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:49 pm
Posts: 1418
Location: St. Louis, MO
I agree with Viginian's BS reply to the gentleman from Mississippi.

If one is going to bad-mouth a company it should be based upon clear facts, actual gun ownership, field usage, etc. Several of us have recently purchased Remington shotguns, shot them, dis-assembled, hunted, etc. and been very satisfied.

The gentleman from Mississippi didn't offer ANY evidence to support his "bashing." Generalized statements like "everyone knows..." are not at all convincing.

Remington is probably not the "best" gun manufacturer in the world (PERAZZI ? KREIGHOFF? HOLLAND?), but they do produce useful, durable, and reliable firearms for the "average person" at reasonable prices; and they make a lot of them. I see no rationale for "bashing."

If for some reason I had to hunt the rest of my days with a Remington 870 Express or Versamax, I would do just fine.

gold40


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:27 am
Posts: 521
Location: Rochester, NY
I have a wingmaster and it is a nice gun. It is from 1982.

I just had the chance to purchase an express 870 12ga, the guy won it and still in box. I took it for 250$ and couldn't pass this deal. I am going to try it and see the difference. The gun doesn't have the same level of finish but you are not paying for that. I bet that it can survive the same life expectancy as a wingmaster.

I don't see remington as different from any other gun company, even perazzi might have problems with their 10k + gun!

I think express is a really nice gun and it did help a lot young shooters to step in the shotgunning world and be supportive to our games.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:55 pm 
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I agree 100% with Virginian, and I'll add this.

A Remington 870 is a Remington 870. The Express grade guns do not have the same high levels of polish and finish as the Wingmaster grade guns, but they cost half the money. I haven't seen a brand new out of the box Wingmaster in years, as a result of that fact. The public refuses to pay twice the money for a prettier shotgun.

I own a Remington Express. I bought it used just to see what they were like. Mine is about ten years old, has the sawtooth rib and the trigger guard lock they had then, and at first it would stick cheaper brands of shells in the chamber. After I re cut the chamber with a long forcing cone reamer and polished it with a hone, now it shoots any brand of shell. It does rust easily, but I have gun oil and steel wool that takes care of that. It's cheap plastic factory stock was cursed with a brick hard recoil pad I replaced with Remington's Super Cell which is THE best $20 I've ever spent on upgrading a shotgun. The Express 870's are not nearly as pretty as the Wingmasters, but pretty is as pretty shoots when it comes to a beater, throw in the trunk shotgun that you want to use like a tool. If you want to be proud of a pump shotgun, you might as well buy a Remington 870 TC Trap and skip right over the Wingmaster grade.

If you would like a modern classic pump shotgun that every part is made right and finished out, polished, and you'll be proud to own forever, don't buy an 870. Buy a late production Ithaca Model 37 for nearly what you'd pay for a Wingmaster. Nothing wrong with the Wingmaster, but it's never going to be made from solid milled steel and walnut, and every part of it made that way, as an Ithaca Model 37 has been for 77 years now.

All those pump shotguns will work. It's a matter of what you can afford and what you are willing to pay for pretty finish, and how much more you'll pay to have the satisfaction of knowing your shotgun has no stamped steel or aluminum parts like an Ithaca Model 37.

If you'd really like to spend money, go bring along enough to buy a Winchester Model 12 and send it off to Simmons for the full treatment.

But if you'd like a great handling, durable, reliable, and nearly everlasting pump shotgun for shooting targets or birds, you can buy an Express, in either 12 or 20 gauge, and it will point, handle, an shoot nearly as well as anything else you can buy at any price.

And a Mossberg 500 or any of it's ilk will work, will shoot nearly forever, but they aren't even in the same class for handling and being able to shoot as well as you do really fine shotguns. An 870 has broken nearly all records at one time or another for skeet and trap, and if Mossberg ever has broken any I'd be surprised. Mossberg pumps were designed in 1960 for people who weren't willing to pay the money for a Remington 870, and nothing has changed since with them.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:20 am 
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The 37 just doesn't do it for me at all SuperX. Never pined even one tiny bit for a Model 12, either. I greatly prefer the ergonomics of a Wingmaster. First one I ever picked up, I loved it. First one I owned, I killed two geese with the first two shots, the morning after I bought it back in the days when you didn't even have to clean a new gun before shooting it. I killed two geese with the first two shots I ever fired out of the only Express I ever owned too. It was highly serviceable, but it had to go. Beauty may be only skin deep, but it's the part I have to look at the most.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:01 am 
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A high polish, "bowling pin finish", Remington 870 Wingmaster just sort of does something for me. Probably because they sold them at the Lowery Brothers Hardware store when I was a kid, and I would handle and want one, then convince myself my inherited Sweet 16 was all the shotgun I'd need for awhile. I've had so many since I've lost count, and still have two or three, one of them even being a TC grade. 870's are awesomely good handling and pointing shotguns for shooting clays, and for birds. The "mousetrap triggers" are hidden up inside and work seemingly forever. It's a wonderful shotgun. But unlike high school, I get to have all the guns I want.

My conversion to the Ithaca M37 came in a South Dakota cornfield about a dozen years ago, when my middle son was about ten and I handed him my Classics Doubles 101 to walk the cornrow and and grabbed a beater Ithaca M37 VR Deluxe I'd taken along as a spare gun. A half a mile later I was like Saul on the road to Damascus, hit by realization that in the M37 was true perfection in a game gun. But they do look sorta silly with that single action bar and you have to take the stock clear off one to get inside it.

I've had several Mossbergs too. But my sons sort of snicker when they see me shooting one, and even though Bladeswitcher sold me the world's finest Mossberg 500 with gorgeous wood, a decent trigger pull, factory pad, and all the trimmings, I just can't work up any fondness for a Mossy. They do work flawlessly, but they handle like a fence post and usually look no better, in my jaded opinion. If you were a kid and knew no better you'd be satisfied with a Mossy so long as you never borrowed an 870, I suppose.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:52 pm 
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Hi guys, maybe I can help. I recently purchased a Remington 870 Express 20 gauge youth model shotgun at Dick's Sporting Goods in VA beach, VA. Upon returning home with the gun, I tried to op test it and found that I could not load a shell into the magazine tube. After troubleshooting, I found that the shell elevator (lever that takes a shell from the tube to the barrel on the return stroke) was not machined correctly. With the bolt closed, the tab on the right side of the elevator contacted the underside of the bolt BEFORE the elevator was clear of the magazine tube, so much so that I could not even force a shell into the magazine. This effectively rendered the gun a single shot. However, as I did not pay an arm and a leg for the gun, and I did not want to wait to get it fixed, I removed the trigger assembly (which the elevator is attached to) placed it in a vice, and filed down the tab a bit (and rounded it off) enough to allow it fall clear of the mag tube with the bolt closed, so now I can load the gun's magazine. I wound up taking a bit off of the top front of the elevator as well, as it also hit before the elevator cleared the tube opening. I've had the gun on the skeet range 3 times now, with about 6 boxes of shells through it, and it functions great. I also ended up filing the sides of the loading port on the bottom of the gun, as it came with sharp edges from the factory. It even cut my thumb one time while loading.

Even so, I am pleased with the gun. I just would have thought that even a basic function test at the factory would have caught these defects. I mean, if the shell elevator is off enough to prevent a shell from being loaded into the mag tube, that isn't exactly a minor defect, even though I was able to correct it in 10 minutes with a file and a vice. So yes, here is a story of bad QC from Remington. I'm keeping the gun though. It's my first pump, and it shoots great.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:50 am 
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I am glad you managed to get you gun working although I am unsure of your techniques. I have sold guns and seen issues with ALL major maker's guns from the factory. Harvard business school started preaching cut back on internal QA/QC, and so like good little sheep they did. And Toyota went from the world benchmark for quality to recall city.

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I do not trust Remington's dating service accuracy. If they were Match.com, you could end up with Nancy Pelosi.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:12 am 
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Location: SE TX
Virginian wrote:
I am glad you managed to get you gun working although I am unsure of your techniques. I have sold guns and seen issues with ALL major maker's guns from the factory. Harvard business school started preaching cut back on internal QA/QC, and so like good little sheep they did. And Toyota went from the world benchmark for quality to recall city.

Exactly!

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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:55 pm 
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Virginian wrote:
I am glad you managed to get you gun working although I am unsure of your techniques. I have sold guns and seen issues with ALL major maker's guns from the factory. Harvard business school started preaching cut back on internal QA/QC, and so like good little sheep they did. And Toyota went from the world benchmark for quality to recall city.


It wasn't that difficult to get the gun working really, The shell elevator serves the function of transporting a shell from the mag tube to the chamber. There are flat ones, curved ones, skeletonized ones, and so forth. Hell, you could probably make the piece out of some fine looking hardwood and it would function great, but most people wouldn't buy it. All I did was do a close inspection, see where it was contacting the bottom of the bolt, and file a little off. Once the right tab was clear and the front of the elevator began to hit, I took a little from there too until I could move it clear of the mag tube opening and load a shell into the magazine. The loading port issue was as simple as rounding off a sharp edge.

My only point in saying this is not everyone is capable of diagnosing and correcting such problems, which they shouldn't have to do on a brand new gun. And you are right about the QC going down across the board btw.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:27 pm 
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It is not the exterior of the Express that is so bad to me as I am only a hunter. The gravel pit roughness of the working parts is terrible. I wish they would make the outside of the gun even uglier and vibra-hone the internals. I can't believe the cost difference to the company would be very much. I grew up with a 1974 Wingmaster I purchased new and won't allow an Express in the house. The Express is the reason there are always 2 or 3 Mossberg 500s in my house.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:16 am 
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Just curious to the time period of which these potential QC issues have occured on the 870's.

I bought a 20g youth back in '06 that seems to run pretty well to date, and truth be told, I've used it more in the past two weeks during dove season than I have before then since '06.

In any case, the only defect in it that I can see is that the auto-aiming isn't working properly..... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:30 pm 
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I would pick the 870. That is because I have one, and I have never shot a mossberg. At the range I go to the 870 hands down is the most popular pump, followed by the bps. I can really remember seeing a mossberg outside two guys. My 870 was rough, but I polished the chamber. And after a season of shooting trap leauge is really smoothed out the gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:24 am 
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I bought a new 870 express youth 20 about seven or eight years ago. The action bars on the forearm kept binding up in the receiver. It was not apparent at the dealer. Happened even when we'll cleaned and lubed. Traded it in on something else.

My son shoots an 870 12 and he doesn't have that problem. The action is generally pretty smooth. He occasionally (actually rarely) gets a fired shell stuck in the chamber, though. Requires removal of barrel.

No problem with rust on either gun. We never cased them wet, however.

Only paid a couple of hundred bucks for each gun, so I feel like I got my money's worth.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington 870 Express 20 gauge?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:29 pm 
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The 870 20 ga is the only shotgun ever to give me a black eye. It belongs to my son who did not like it because it always jammed when ejecting shells. A couple of months ago I looked into it and discovered the chamber to be rougher than a cob. While polishing it out with a dremmel tool the grinding wheel broke and a piece hit me near the eye thus the shiner :lol: The eye was not painful but the explaining how you got it to all your friends got annoying. The gun works well now and always wear your safety glasses.




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