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Is there much difference firing a 7/8's ounce payload if fired from a 12 gauge gun compared to an equal shot charge fired out of the 20 gauge .. ? .. On the surface of it, it sure wouldn't seem so. Assuming equal loading parameters between the two gauges (or nearly so) is it possible to have a 'quasi' 20 gauge by using 7/8's ounce loads in a 12 gauge gun. . ? .. Would the shot pattern be pretty much the same out of both guns . .? .. I ask out of curiosity.

With respect to the smaller gauges the more I read about shooting the .410 gauge the more interesting it sounds - and a challenge to boot. I've never shot a .410 gauge gun before but I'm thinking of ordering up set of .410 tubes for my 12 gauge O/U and giving it a go. .! . .

John

skeetldoo,

The 12 gauge shooting the 7/8 oz load, all other things being equal, should pattern a little better than the 20 gauge shooting the 7/8 oz load. When I say better, I mean there should be fewer fliers and little more consistency with the 12 gauge.

For Skeet, there is little, if any, practical difference.

Scott

Good Question.

I also wonder about this, Is it better to use 20 ga tubes or 12 ga 7/8 load. To rephrase the question.

A friend of mine said the 20 ga 7/'8 give a better shot string. Going from that the tubes are justified - right

vn6869,

All other thing being equal, the 20 gauge will have a slightly longer shot string. Why would that be better than the shorter shot string of the 12 gauge?

Scott

I suspect there are still folks who believe the shot string from a shotgun is like a spurt from a water hose and feel it is a benifit, no matter how small. They then think they have that string to rely on for that occasional Golden BB effect, saving thier round from time to time. Just isn't so! I'd rather they all get there at about the same time, and for all practical intents and purposes they do! Amazing what folks take for truth regarding things unseen, like Air, God, and Shot String.

BP

Do you have any evidence for this statment?

[quote]The 12 gauge shooting the 7/8 oz load, all other things being equal, should pattern a little better than the 20 gauge shooting the 7/8 oz load. When I say better, I mean there should be fewer fliers and little more consistency with the 12 gauge.
[/quote]

John

jjohnson,

Do I have evidence? No, I have not done pattern testing to prove this one way or the other.

The theory behind my statement is pretty solid though. The larger bore of the 12 gauge means there will be less pellet deformation due to the forcing cone and choke constriction. There will be less friction travel down the barrel as well. This could reduce pellet deformation as well.

Scott

I do have evidence of a sort. The problem is that as soon as we introduce something different, such as a different barrel or a different set of tubes, we are introducing another variable in the equation. That being said, I've patterned rather extensively 7/8 ounce 12 gauge loads out of the 12 gauge barrel of my 4-barrel set and standard 7/8 ounce loads out of the 20 gauge barrel. The barrels are fixed skeet chokes.

To try and remove as many variables as possible, I loaded both the 12 gauge and 20 gauge to the same velocity although, not surprisingly, the 20 gauge peak pressure was higher and, of course, I had to use a different mix of propellant and wad.

The 12 gauge tended to produce a slightly more uniform pattern with #8 and #7-1/2 shot, but I couldn't see any significant difference between the two loads with #9 shot.

What would be interesting would be to fire some loads from each gun at a moving target to get some idea of shot string elongation with the two gauges. I might do that one of these days.

The felt recoil will be lighter in the tubed gun because itis heavier. Better shot string??????If you go to NSSA and look up shooter averages for shooters A class and above I don't think you will find any significant difference.

I loaded 7/8 for the 12 for a while...got good patterns and the recoil was very light. I felt it was lighter than the tubed 20 gage, even though the tubes were adding weight. In my mind the best thing about this load is the very light recoil....if you're on 'em they will break with 7/8's outta a 12 or a 20.

One advantage to the 7/8 ounce load in the 12 vs the 20 is the pattern diameter size. I forget which reference book I read this in, but it stated that at skeet distances with skeet chokes the 12 ga throws a 30" diameter pattern,
20 ga 26"
28ga 22"
.410 18".

Do the math to arrive at the square inches of each and you will find significant differences. Going to a lighter payload of shot will not change the pattern diameter, but it will affect pattern density. In the past I have loaded my 12 ga to as low as 3/4 of an ounce, but settled on the 7/8 ounce load as my gut feeling was the pattern density was getting a bit thin with the 3/4 ounce load. Just my best guess though. Nothing to back that up with.

as far as 24 gram loads in the 12, when the shot load was dropped to 24 grams in most intl' competition, the scores went UP. i personally think that was because of less recoil and muzzle flip.

i only load 24 gram shot loads in my 12's at intl' specs, around 1350 fps. i get HARD breaks. my trap gun will woof 'em, the bunker gun will get the 60 yard breaks, and when i do shoot skeet with the 12, the 24 gram load does the job. works well at sporting, and recoil is very light.

i no longer load any other load in the 12. with that said, i really like skeet with the tubed 20. some of the top skeeters do not shoot the 12 at all, relying on the tubed 20 to do their chores. one season, todd bender had a 1.000 average with his 20. that is right. he did not miss ONE SINGLE TARGET that season with his tubed 20!

"it ain't how much freight you throw, it's WHERE you deliver it!"

I posted something here:

http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/thread.cfm?threadid=60088&messages=5

showing pattern "quality" and how to measure it and that it is most likely that one pattern (on average) is just the same as any other of the same width (on average).

The only time shot deformation comes into things is at long range when aerodynamic effects become more prominent. This is only an issue if you are looking for the tightest possible patterns. If you shoot less than full choke the 20g will do everything the 12g does.

1oz of pellets can cover a larger area than 7/8oz of pellets - obviously. If you are a good shooter though, you centre everything it makes no difference. If you are a beginner getting scrores in the 70s, that the cartridge costs you 2% of clays will not be noticed. If you are intermediate with scores in the 85-95 region, if the recoil doesn't put you off, extra pellets help.

Andrew.

I have always read that as long as the gauge remains the same, that only CHOKE will determine the pattern SPREAD/ SIZE. By adding or subtracting the amount of shot, one affects the pattern DENSITY, not spread/size.

Well, I just tried out the 7/8's ounce reloads I loaded up this past weekend in two rounds of skeet league shooting. I had been using one ounce loads prior to this. I would like to say I like the way those 7/8's ounce loads 'feel', even compared to the one ounce loads I had been using previously. Besides the lesser charge of shot, different wads and a slightly lesser amount of powder charge was used.

This 7/8's load recoils more like a 'push' against the shoulder compared to the sharper report I was getting before. I didn't notice I broke any fewer targets than before using the 7/8's ounce load, so .... ... . . Yea, I missed a 'few' .. .. I think this 7/8's ounce load is gonna be a keeper .. ! ..

John