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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:52 pm 
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Wonderful Superposed guns . . . great projects!

Stories in the making . . .

Please keep us informed!!!

CFB



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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:50 pm 
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Update: 'Hares' gun trigger guard 11/11/17

My friend sacrificed his time and drove to Belgium this morning to picked-up the completed project. He sent me several photos from the gunsmith's shop but I was outside training dogs when they came through and did not respond while he was still at M. Corman's shop. He said M.Corman gave him a tour of the shop, showed him the tools he made and used, and described the process of taking the rough basic guard through all the steps to shaping, fitting it to the existing stock, and finishing/sealing.

This is the only one I have been able to successfully upload at this point....

Image

As you may be able to see, it is singed by Mr. Baptiste on the lower edge of the bow, just ahead of the initials crest. Mr. Corman (armurerier) signed the back side as requested. The block between the receiver tabs was provided (also as requested) to prevent damage by crushing during transit. My friend is coming to the States for Thanksgiving and some hunting, and will bring the stock and trigger guard with him.

As excited as I am about the photos and projected arrival, I can only anticipate what joy this will render when I have all this bolted-up to the gun.......completing this phase of the restoration.

M. Corman incorporated locking screws on both of the trigger guard screws - an unexpected bonus and a wonderfully complex detail. His skill is amazing and he spared nothing in his attention to detail. The fit to the original stock is impeccable.

M. Baptiste needs no accolade from me - only my admiration for his art and skill in duplicating the engraving details from the original Purgal/FN sketches from 1974.

I am humbled by the work of these two men. This is why I wanted them to do it - they honor the tradition of excellence of the Belge, Madame Purgal, and all the craftsmen and women that built this gun as well as those before them. The workmanship and artistry of these 2 gentlemen is what I hoped for, and greatly adds to the gun's history.

I am also humbled by the kindness of those who greatly aided me in this process, that shared in this experience and now, in celebration. I regret I will not see my friend during Thanksgiving, but will look forward to treating him to the skies of Saskatchewan next Fall.

I will continue to attempt other 'successful' photo uploads to show what I've failed to describe, here.

There is at least one more thing I'd like to do to the gun...cosmetically. The butt plate screws on the pistol grip stock (the factory FN replacement, currently on the gun), are not engraved. (left photo)
Image Image
The action is a little tight to open anyway, so I had planned to send the gun to Art's and get him to check everything and adjust what is needed. While it is there, I'll ask him to send the stock and screws to Ray Cover to engrave them to match the detail on the original screws that are on the original straight stock (right photo) - to arrive in about 2 weeks.

Nothing worth anything is ever easy - but without some sacrifice, very little is appreciated. Thanks for you interest.


Last edited by Anatidae on Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:49 am 
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This has been a fun project to follow. Not often that you see the trigger guard as a separate work of art (signed), not to mention the remainder of the shotgun. It will be fun to have the firearm fully assembled and ready to break clays, or hunt cock pheasants and hares. Certainly it will be a standout in your fine Browning collection.


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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Anatidae:

It has been a pleasure to follow your special project on this Superposed.

On projects like these we sometimes will never realize the return on investment. But that's not why we take on such projects. The opportunity to restore a gem or diamond in the rough, originality, the opportunity to work with true craftsmen, pride of ownership of a true work of art, uniqueness of the gun, and so forth . . . you just can't put a price on it! Mr. Browning would be grateful to you!!

I can't wait to see pics of the completed gun!

Congrats on a wonderful result! {hs#

CFB

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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration - w/photos
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:27 pm
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Thank You both, for your thoughtful acknowledgements and comments.

A former Architecture History professor inscribed one of his books.....

"Never undertake a project you do not intend to complete to the best of your ability"

It helps to be passionate about what you do. Fortunately these examples foster a certain passion and excitement that defies reason or sensibility - a departure from the 'ordinary'.



The D5 project will be quite 'involved' and challenging. But as has been said, "nothing ventured - nothing gained."

Image

Life is short - make it count......and find joy in everything.

Thanks for your continued interest, support, and comments.

'le petit poisson'
(the 'little' fish)


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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:10 pm 
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Moving-on to the re-stock project(s), now.

Even though the D5 has the original wood, the grain, 16-18 LPI checkering and pitch, and finish is NOT what I would consider Exhibition Grade quality for that period. Full beavertail forearms are actually very pleasant to shoot - but these are just dreadfully unappealing.

Image

So, I pulled-out my photo files of a '55 FN D4 30" 2-bbl combo I passed-up in 2015......and low and behold it has 13-3/4" forearms just like this '54 D5. 'Viola'! This is closer to the 'character' I want!

Image

So, I sized the photo, measured the screw spacing and made a dimension sheet for whoever takes-on this project.

What is amazing about the 3-pc set above is how tight and uniform the clearances are between upper and lower forearm wood, after 64 years.

One forearm bracket on the D5 was cracked, probably from attempted forearm removal without releasing the latch. Art has already welded that back up. :)

For reference: The standard length for a Superposed forearm wood is around 11-1/2" long. [edit 2/2/2018: 10-1/2" except on some 50's 'game gun' and 'field' configurations which are 9-1/2"] To help stabilize the extra 2-1/4" [edit: 3-1/4"] (on a 13-3/4" forearm wood), I'll probably incorporate a 2nd (but smaller) barrel lug (or 'hook') that locks into a recessed bracket on the mating surface of the lower forearm. I think 4" from the nose will resist any torque rotating on the forearm bracket. That's the same distance the transverse screw is, from the forearm knuckle. It will be concealed (i.e., no transverse screw there).

I'm beginning to think the longer forearms were used on the live pigeon guns. It would be interesting to know, WHY......so I'll ask my 'live bird gun authority in Switzerland. If he doesn't know the answer, it will worry him to no end until he consults several gunmakers over there. :mrgreen: The answer would greatly factor into design decisions regarding length of the new forearms.

The appearance of the longer, darker forearm is almost too 'mechanized' (IMO). I would like it to be a little more 'elegant' than this. Perhaps case-hardened finishes on the upper screws, and a lighter wood grain/stain would reduce the contrast a bit. When you view the overall of the gun, the long forearms make the 30" barrels appear relatively short......or disproportional from a more familiar norm.

Opinions/comments are welcomed. The 'planning' seems to be the most difficult phase. Keep in mind I will save the wood that is currently on the gun as part of its history. I'm just contemplating upgraded wood and attachment that will be interchangeable/reversible. The holes in the side ribs for 3-pc upper forearms would be hidden if the original beavertails were re-installed. The 2nd barrel lug idea could also be incorporate if the original fore ends were modified for this added measure of strength.


Last edited by Anatidae on Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:21 am
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The three piece forearm makes good sense for a classy D5 shotgun such as this, and may actually add value to the gun.

If one of the barrel sets is more suited for target use, perhaps you could retain the beavertail forearm for your shooting use. Then you could concentrate on the other barrel set for the fancy new aesthetically pleasing forearm, and use it for display (or live pigeons). This would simplify your project a bit.

Whatever the result, the gun will be a keepsake and have a special place in your collection.


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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:31 pm 
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I appreciate your thoughts and comments, Muskyjack. Good suggestion - I'll certainly keep this in mind.

The barrel sets are both 30". One is .036"/.030" or F/LF. The other is .006/.004 or SK/SK. I don't know which one I would shoot more often.

It just occurred to me that most 'true' Live-Bird guns do not have a safety. This one HAS a safety, but I'm not convinced that excludes it from live bird gun consideration. The '55 D4 example also has a safety, yet both have the longer forearms. More questions for my expert.

It also occurred to me that longer forearms might be used for balance. If you wanted more weight forward (conventional for Trap) and want to retain the heavier weight of the gun overall......especially with the added weight of a 'flat-grip' Monte Carlo comb......

Image

.......perhaps more forearm wood provided counterweight to promote the desired balance.

'Boxed birds' employed a mounted gun, just as Trap does. 200-target events with pigeon loads could be quite punishing. So, if 8lbs 6oz isn't enough......add more wood (a similar response as the 'Swan neck' stock design).

Regardless, I'm currently leaning toward 3-pc forearms, but standard length due to 3 factors:
  • Proportion (aesthetics)
  • Structural integrity (less stress on the forearm knuckle)
  • Complexity of execution (expense)


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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:51 pm 
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I was able to get feedback from 2 live pigeon shooters in the same day. One returned my voice-mail from a few days ago. He said our common friend from Switzerland is presently in the States, and gave me his temporary number.

Neither could make any correlation of longer forearms to 'pigeon' shooting, but agreed it could be a response to 'balance'.

As far as the beavertail forearms - if the D5 was originally choked F/LF and SK/SK, then the larger hand guards would protect against hot barrels in Summer events......and/or may have been special-ordered by a shooter with relatively big hands.

Regarding the 1-1/2" parallel comb (Monte Carlo comb) - this is not unusual for games employing a mounted gun....particularly targets you have to acquire and shoot quickly. He found it unusual to have a checkered butt for a live pigeon gun, though. Most have recoil pads of some fashion.

Update regarding export-import for re-stocking:

I haven't found anyone willing or capable of the work I propose to have done on this gun....IN the US, yet. I'm not sure the Liege-trained guys in Quebec can handle the wood-fitting aspects, and I have yet to get a response to my inquiry and plea for assistance. I have forwarded a program and some details to Griffin & Howe in hopes they can put something together for me. I am not opposed to other craftsmen with this expertise, to engage this project.

But, if I cannot find someone in the States, I will go back to the gunsmith in Belgium and proceed (or not) from there. I'm sure he can do the gunsmithing portion of the work, and can farm-out the woodworking and engraving to very capable sources in the homeland.

The most appealing aspect of sending it back to Belgium is someone will be able to access FN archives to research the original configuration of this gun (and other guns from that period), to confirm period-correct details....including photographs. Otherwise, I'll provide them with the results of my own research of examples I've encountered.

The cost may be prohibitive, but I'm still sitting pretty with this one, so far - even after talking to Art and deciding both sets of 'salt-blued' barrels should be re-soldered....and re-blued. The alternative would be to wait, and hope another '50's (or earlier) D5 Funken with 3-pc forearms (in excellent condition) will appear in the near future. The cost will be the same, either way. I waited 5 years for this example.......I'm not overly optimistic about finding another one.


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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:24 pm 
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'Lapins de boxe et Coqs de combat' - (Boxing Hares and Fighting Cocks):
......is now back to her original glory as a Superlite (wood configuration) FN Exhibition Grade 27.5" Game Gun. I can rest easy and celebrate a 'nearly-completed' project.

Image

Much to my surprise, the friend that graciously served as my 'legs on the ground' in Europe during this whole process also enclosed a really nice Stanbury (UK) 'green cap' (as he calls it), as a gift. I was as excited about the cap as I was, receiving the stock and trigger guard because he and another hunting companion have one of their own......what a nice touch.

The Soprano 'boxing hares' necktie was a gift from another friend (B25 aficionado) in Switzerland who spotted the tie on a trip to London after I told him about the gun (only a prospect at the time), and he held-on to it for a year until I confirmed the gun finally arrived back in March..

As anticipated, I am extremely satisfied with the workmanship, fit, engraving, level of detail, and finish. As you may be able to see, the engraving matches the scale and style of the 'détails originaux' of the shorter guard, but are more ornate with an extra volute here and there. While this isn't an 'exact' match, I'm not questioning the design and execution as the additional scroll coverage (IMO) achieves better balance on the longer guard.

Image

Image

Image

The double locking screws were a very unexpected bonus. I've noticed this detail on later model FN Ex-guns. The screws are so small, I had trouble holding them in position to get the threads started. Imagine what expertice is required to engrave something so small, to such detail.

A couple of revelations:
1. The original straight stock has more cast than the replacement pistol grip stock.
2. Comparing dimensions (now that I have the original straight stock back on the gun).....
straight stock (original) = 1-7/16" x 2" x 15"
pistol grip (replacement) = 1-5/8" x 2-5/8" x 15"

These 2 factors may have been the reason for the replacement stock - it didn't fit the current owner. Aside from the slightly more than 'neutral' cast, the drops and LOP are within my optimal dimensions. I should be able to shoot the new set-up this weekend.
Anatidae wrote:
It will be interesting to see what the difference in weight is with the straight stock mounted. Even then, some of the weight difference could also be a product of wood density.
3. The gun weighs 3 ounces less with the straight stock.......or 7lbs 1oz. A true 'Superlite' 12ga frame with 27.5" bbls would weigh around 6lbs 9 oz. I am certainly relieved to have a 12ga game gun closer to the 7-pound weight.

This was absolutely worth the effort as many friendships have been fostered through this wonderful piece of FN history its restoration 'to as-original configuration'.

My boy, 'Rip' knows gun=game........he's not to be left behind if I'm getting my stuff ready for tomorrow. It's amazing how they know. Now the photo is complete. Life is good.

Image

D5 Update:
Both sets of bbls have been re-soldered and re-blued ('deep lustre' as per 1952 FN Superposed catalog) - originally 'salt-blued'.
The gun is currently at the engraver's for touch-up of spots repaired (4 areas of corrosion damage previously masked by chrome-like plating on receiver and other parts that are normally coin-finished).

It will receive the proper 'coin' finish, highlighting, and finish. I should have this one back, soon. [restock project(s) 'on hold' until the metal restoration is completed]. Griffin & Howe probably gets the nod on the restock pending detailed specifics and revised pricing (i.e., project programming).

Again, Thanks for your continued interest and comments. Stay tuned.

Happy Hunting!
'le petit poisson'


Last edited by Anatidae on Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:57 pm 
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Anatidae,

The engraving on the tang is delicious!

Congratulations on the successful conclusion of an interesting project!

Thanks for sharing with us!

Warm regards,

CFB

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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:30 pm 
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Anatidae , A fine completion to an intense undertaking . the research , conjecture , Time and resources expended on this endeavor are truly impressive. Kudos to you Sir !
Myself and I'm sure others are watching the D5 project with rapt attention.......

Merci d'avoir partage



By the way , the last picture you posted , other than something to eat once in awhile and a place to sleep , I cannot think of anything else you might need :D

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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:47 am 
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Anatidae-
Very nice; it looks like everything was done right on this project! The engraved locking screws are a classy touch which certainly fit the character of the shotgun.


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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:44 pm 
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I have never seen the double locking screws on a superposed before. I think it's a beautiful touch. Probably put on only the best guns. What a classy job. Love that last picture, You only need a dead bird or 2 for your partner in there.


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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Thank you for the nice comments, acknowledgements, AND your continued interest in these matters.

I agree, a couple pheasants or hares would be a nice addition to the photo - in a natural setting. I hope to achieve that, soon.

'le petit poisson'


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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:01 pm 
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Anatidae,

I admire your dedication to your projects and enjoy following along. Detail is key, that’s for sure

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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:00 pm 
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......and I admire yours, regarding the Grade IV Auto-V restoration. Good luck with that project.

That's what I like about this place.....people's willingness to share/voice an appreciation for rare art, and preservation thereof.

'le petit poisson'


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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:00 pm 
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'Hares' Trigger Guard: I sent a letter of Thanks and appreciation to Monsieur Corman this morning and look forward to future correspondence with him. I plan to consult him on the D5 re-stock plans, and hope he will tolerate some questions and offer his critique.

FN D5: I learned yesterday that nothing is being spared on the metal restoration (as requested). It is still at the engraver's. 'Interesting process for building-up the areas to be repaired and re-engraved. I regret ANYTHING needed to be done at all, but the gun will be no-less rare and 'special' to me and is yet another example of Funken's genius and artistry.

Photos of the existing engraving are taken - then a series of impressions (and 'castings' in some cases) of the engraving are made. Once the metal oxidation (mostly on hidden surfaces behind the wood) and pitting is 'light-blasted' (with a fine media and velocity that is delicate-enough not to make a mark on even an eggshell), the areas are tig-welded and annealed to bond the molecules and soften the material enough to be easily re-engraved and/or milled to original tolerances. All this has been accomplished.

The repetitive details from the engraving on the rest of the gun can be easily duplicated on the repair areas from either visual comparison, impressions, or castings. I have every confidence that Ray Cover is very sensitive to these details........Art speaks for itself - artists and craftsmen let their work speak for their skill......not Facebook.

With the metal restoration nearing completion, I've begun assembling details into a 'program' which will be sent to the Belgian gunsmith. Any revisions will then be forwarded to Griffin & Howe for pricing. I hope to get the 're-stock' going as soon as I get the gun back from Art's.

I measured several 'standard' forearm lengths. Most are 10-1/2" long. Some Game Guns and Field models are 9-1/2". Topics of discussion with M. Corman (Belgium) will include forearm length and strength, and what may have dictated the use of longer forearms to begin with. Other decisions will be influenced by considerations for visual proportion and 'balance'. I'm still leaning toward 3-pc forearms in the 11-1/2"-12" range.

Other matters regarding restoration: I have also learned a lot from a recent thoughtful and generous gift from 'captjsjr' - 2 Volumes of The Modern Gunsmith copywrite 1934 Funk and Wagnalls Company - New York and London..........inscribed by the author, James Virgil Howe......"With the Best Wishes of the Author, J. V. Howe, 1934."

Thank you, my friend!

Thanks for your continued interest.
'le petit poisson'


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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:45 pm 
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Very little to update but the D5 is back from the engraver's and the barrels have been re-blued.

I found another 1955 D5 30" abroad, just the other day. So, I now know there are at least 2 of these in the World. The other one is roughly 3000 serial number digits above mine, but there is a gold inlaid bust of a dog inside a gold-wire oval on the top of the lever where there is normally a flower vase. It has also been restocked.

As far as the 'Hares' gun......I've never had a stock that was anything but neutral cast. This one was obviously 'fit' to the original owner. It has 1/4" cast off at the heel, and an additional 3/8" (or 5/8" overall) cast on the toe so it sits right in the pocket on the shoulder. I never would have thought it would fit just looking at it......
Image
..........in fact, I think I uttered an "Oh, God!" or two when I first bolted it up.

First time out, I shot a round of 5-stand with it after shooting my normal 30" IM/M fixed-choke FITASC set-up........same results......21x25. The chokes on the Hares gun are M/Cyl.......so I had to be a little creative with 'pairs' order, timing, loads, and shot set-up. Who would've laid odds that this gun would fit me perfectly? Some things are just meant to be.


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 Post subject: Re: In the Interest of Restoration
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:21 pm 
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Anatidae , Nice going ! don't you love it when a plan comes together ?
You know , now that you got you fit dimensions all it takes is a rag soaked with oil and a couple of heat lamps and you can do the rest of 'em. :)



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