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 Post subject: AR-style shotgun?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:36 pm 
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Is there a reliable shotgun that has controls just like an AR-15?




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 Post subject: Re: AR-style shotgun?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:40 pm 
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https://www.classicfirearms.com/ar12-se ... ga-shotgun

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 Post subject: Re: AR-style shotgun?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:36 pm 
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Yea,, but why the heck anyone would want one........................

Wonder what it weighs,,,,,, ought to be a real eye-crosser with full-power shells................
Bet it won't run with mini-shells or "reduced recoil" low velocity ammo..................

But then again,, I dislike AR's,, so I am biassed.

Fortunately,, in a free country,, my likes have no bearing on what someone else can want.

Jump on it and let us know how it works.

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 Post subject: Re: AR-style shotgun?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:47 am 
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Thanks for the link.

The point is a defensive weapon for someone who knows who to work an AR, but not necessarily a more traditional shotgun. Trouble is that so far I have not seen one with the correct style charging handle. With oddball controls, they become a niche item. I cannot see training people to use an oddball when they can use something they already know how to run.


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 Post subject: Re: AR-style shotgun?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:57 am 
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"Learning" how to use a defensive pump or semi-auto shotgun is not that difficult. A Remington 870, or Mossberg 500, 590 or 590a1 are all very simple to operate and clean. Both Remington and Mossberg make semi-automatic shotguns setup as defensive shotguns.

Shotguns are configured as they are after long histories of modifications and changes to the basic design because they work very well for firing at moving targets. In a defensive situation rapid target acquisition, and accurate fire are very important. Each of these things are better because of the traditional configuration of a shotgun.

Now, I get it that your friend already knows the AR platform. I own a few AR's and am a relatively good shot with them. I also own a few shotguns, specifically configured for a home defense situation. I choose to have shotguns shaped like shotguns, rifles shaped like rifles, revolvers shaped like revolvers, and semi-automatic handguns shaped like semi-automatic handguns. All of these designs have evolved over time into what are readily accepted as good reliable platforms. There is always room for improvement, but established designs tend to be good designs.

My advice to your friend, and it may be unwelcome advice, is to learn how to use a pump shotgun that is configured for home defense. It is really pretty simple, just as learning the basic functions of an AR are pretty simple.

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 Post subject: Re: AR-style shotgun?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:41 am 
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urbaneruralite wrote:
Thanks for the link.

The point is a defensive weapon for someone who knows who to work an AR, but not necessarily a more traditional shotgun. Trouble is that so far I have not seen one with the correct style charging handle. With oddball controls, they become a niche item. I cannot see training people to use an oddball when they can use something they already know how to run.

In my world the AR has "oddball controls".

First off,, My 'dislike' isn't from unfamiliarity, 13+ years with that platform for the government, I can run an AR as well as any other firearm I own.
Secondly, despite my "dislike", I BUILT (last spring) a hog-rifle, on the .308 Winchester version of the AR platform (it is serving as Deer Rifle this year due to scope issues on the Deer Rifle at the last minute, 2 down, 3 tags to fill (if I can)).
Despite that same dislike............ my 7-yr-old, very much likes Hog's Bane, and asked if I can build one "my size" (he is just learning to shoot/work with firearms too)......... Yes,, in AR's, I can build one "your size", and it is in the works....... components being gathered.
He currently works with a cut-down stock on my 10/22.

Every OTHER non-stackbarrel rifle or shotgun I have except one has "ordinary" controls, the safety is a button on the back of the trigger guard (more convenient IMO than the switch on an AR).
The BPS has it on the back of the receiver where Mossberg likes them.

Every other non-stackbarrel rifle or shotgun I have (except that BPS again) has the exact same "side-charging handle", which is 'normal' everywhere EXCEPT the AR.

In the world of guns, the AR with it's rear-top 'charging handle' and it's multi-function safety selector switch is an "oddball".

My Auto 5 Browning and Model 11R Remington are about as simple as controls get.
If it's empty and you stored it with the chamber closed, yank that Side Charging Handle backwards and it'll lock open.
Now start feeding shells to the magazine, first one you let go of will be in the chamber an instant later, with no help from you. (Browning's Speed Feed system).
Keep loading till she's full, point, poke safety off, pull trigger until you are done.
If you run it empty, it'll stay open, feed the magazine.

If you fill the magazine with the chamber closed, just grab that charging handle and yank it back once and let go, it'll feed itself, add one to the magazine 'cause it's short one now.

There's also nothing the least bit difficult about learning to use more than one set of gun-controls, no more than there is difficulty in learning to drive more than one car.

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 Post subject: Re: AR-style shotgun?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Here is interesting Turkish shotgun which has AR like controls: http://www.scandiumdefence.com/

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 Post subject: Re: AR-style shotgun?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:02 am 
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rem870com wrote:
Here is interesting Turkish shotgun which has AR like controls: http://www.scandiumdefence.com/



It was easier to find info. on when I found the gun is advertised here as the TYPHOON F12. I'm not sure it is actually for sale. At over 8 pounds, I'm not sure it is a gun the little lady will want to hold up while clearing the house.

I think we're going to look into a suppressed AR pistol with varmint bullets.


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 Post subject: Re: AR-style shotgun?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:52 pm 
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Many of Turkish Shotgun producer has AR15 style shotgun today.

In this Turkish local gun dealer web page you can find all models , Inculuded AR15 or AK47 models.

http://www.yabanavmalzemeleri.com/SIFIR-TUFEKLER,LA_552-2.html#labels=557-2

Today best trustable and working Ar15 platform shotgun is Ersus Arms , they are produce .410 g shotgun and working perfectly , product quality very good. They are copy everything from Colt model. so all parts from colt almost suitable to this model.

http://www.ersusarms.com/ers-r04.asp

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Ersus factory just found it last year , so i am not sure available in USA but i hope they will starting export to USA soon.

They are also copy the Tavor TAR 21 model as 12 G.

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 Post subject: Re: AR-style shotgun?
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 7:41 pm
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urbaneruralite wrote:
Is there a reliable shotgun that has controls just like an AR-15?


Consider the RIA VR 60. I have one that is only two weeks old. It is accurate out to 100 yards from personal experience with the factory sights. Everyone who has shot it is crazy about it and one female immediately went out and bought one of her own.

Here is the perhaps temporary downside. It is not fully broken in and there are some reliability issues with failures to feed and failures to eject using light trap loads. There are also some issues loading the magazines.

That said, the gun has not had 200 shells through it yet. I suspect that as the gun breaks in, some of these problems will go away. I do have some suspicions the magazines are part of the problem and may need some work. The other important point is these problems do not seem to happen nearly as often with 3 inch high brass shells.

We will have to see what happens as more shells run through the gun.

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 Post subject: Re: AR-style shotgun?
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:04 pm 
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The problem with AR or AK styled shotguns that are shotguns shaped like rifles.

The old standard is that you don't aim a shotgun, you "point" it. Keep both eyes open and focused on the spot you want to hit. That little bead on the muzzle is just a quick indicator, not a rifle sight. A properly fitted shotgun should hit right where you look.

This means that for many of us a conventionally shaped shotgun with a proper length of pull and no rear sight will be faster and easier to engage multiple targets with. Ghost rings, red dots and scopes work great IF you are using slugs. But for close quarters combat using buckshot you don't need to waste time focusing on any kind of sight. Besides, under life and death stress your natural inclination will be to focus on the danger. Right where you should be looking with a shotgun anyway.

The main advantage these rifle shaped shotguns offer is a quickly changed detachable magazine. But there is really no reason that a conventionally shaped shotguns can't be adapted to take detachable magazines. In fact Remington and Mossberg are starting to manufacture magazine fed versions of their pump guns. Suppose Benelli came out with a magazine fed M2?

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 Post subject: Re: AR-style shotgun?
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 11:22 am 
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Ezra Smack wrote:
The problem with AR or AK styled shotguns that are shotguns shaped like rifles.

The old standard is that you don't aim a shotgun, you "point" it. Keep both eyes open and focused on the spot you want to hit. That little bead on the muzzle is just a quick indicator, not a rifle sight. A properly fitted shotgun should hit right where you look.

This means that for many of us a conventionally shaped shotgun with a proper length of pull and no rear sight will be faster and easier to engage multiple targets with. Ghost rings, red dots and scopes work great IF you are using slugs. But for close quarters combat using buckshot you don't need to waste time focusing on any kind of sight. Besides, under life and death stress your natural inclination will be to focus on the danger. Right where you should be looking with a shotgun anyway.

The main advantage these rifle shaped shotguns offer is a quickly changed detachable magazine. But there is really no reason that a conventionally shaped shotguns can't be adapted to take detachable magazines. In fact Remington and Mossberg are starting to manufacture magazine fed versions of their pump guns. Suppose Benelli came out with a magazine fed M2?


Back in the day my first gun ever was a Daisy "Quick Skill"...no sights whatsoever, & the barrel reminded me very much of a short 12ga. Shooting that thing taught me quite a bit. The "quick skill" training was similar to the Vietnam era "quick kill", which of course was AR based.

For reference: https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Quick-Kill-Instinct-accurately/dp/1493725688/ref=cm_wl_huc_item

Fast forward a few decades...

Not all GRS are created equal. In my experience, Mossberg GRS, properly used, are just as fast FOR ME as a plain bead (or for that matter, no bead), regardless of distance, & are of course more accurate than a bead at distance. With a tritium front sight blade, even better.

Take an unconventional platform, such as a KSG...in that situation, IME, a good red dot, properly mounted/located, is hard to beat...for speed & accuracy. Especially with older eyes, even with astigmatism. Works for me.




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