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 Post subject: Re: semi vs pump
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:56 pm 
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Oblio13 wrote:
...Modern semis are superior in every way, including reliability.
All stock semis with all (even just 2-3/4 dram) loads?

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Shooting a pump from any position but offhand is problematic...
Are you sure this is what your were trying to say?

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And short-stroking one in the heat of the moment creates quite a jam. If you haven't done it yet, it's because you haven't shot much.
Yes, but that's often because novice/untrained shotgun owners don't muscle-reflexively practice critical aim-fire- pump/reload sequence smoothly. If you just aim-fire only to realize you need to make another shot, you're more likely to panic/rush and short stroke.



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 Post subject: Re: semi vs pump
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:21 pm 
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Pump action shotguns are similar to single action revolvers or lever action rifles because they require the shooter to preform a manual action between shots. Modern semi-autos (pistols, rifles and shotguns) do not.

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 Post subject: Re: semi vs pump
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:37 pm 
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if you are familiar enough to be able to evaluate the different hardware, arm yourself with whatever you are most attracted to. intuition never fails. we all have different circumstances and attract different circumstances and therefore have different weapons and load them differently. i don't believe in cookie cutter solutions. be yourself.
the most important thing in a confrontation is eliminating the first bad guy which can be done with either platform having the first round in the chamber. and this refers to the above paragraph. in my circumstance living rural/suburban the only threat is disorganized idiot thieves. if you take the first one out the fight swings in your favor as they are cowards and don't like taking losses. if i were DEA going into a drug warehouse i would need different weapons. a lot of people are like me and keep it simple with a pump. i am not worried about a confrontation and take life as it comes.


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 Post subject: Re: semi vs pump
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:20 am 
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Oblio13 wrote:
Comparing pump shotguns to autoloading shotguns is like comparing revolvers to semi-automatic pistols.

Pumps and revolvers are ancient technology. Modern semis are superior in every way, including reliability.

Shooting a pump from any position but offhand is problematic. And short-stroking one in the heat of the moment creates quite a jam. If you haven't done it yet, it's because you haven't shot much.


What a pile of horseapples. Do you actually have any real experience with pumps and revolvers?

A Mossberg 500 is the only gun of any type I have never had a malfunction with. I include most every popular gun in that list, including supposedly infallible examples like Glocks and AK-47s. I can't be the only one who has used a pump extensively without short stroking it. Don't blame your nature on the machine.

And while I have hung a revolver with bad ammo, I have seen many, many more problems with pistols. The single criteria that discounts pistols for civilian use is they're single shots when fired from a pocket. If you need another, try emptying one into the side of an animal that is on top of you like you can with a double action revolver.

To be sure, autos have come a long away. They're not new tech, though. The inital problems with the basic tech will never be overcome. Such is why we still have revolvers and pumps. They are still more reliable for recreational and self-defensive use than anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: semi vs pump
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:32 pm 
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There was a "semi vs pump" discussion on a local forum and one of the discussed disadvantages of the pump was its slow shooting speed, so I created this video to shot that you can shoot pump fast :)

https://youtu.be/trjm5mEXvbk

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 Post subject: Re: semi vs pump
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:31 pm 
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Location: Newton Kansas
Certain people can shoot a pump fast, the vast majority can't.

Something like 8 or 9 yrs ago when 3-gun was new around here I took my 8+1+5 Huglu Toros2000 to a match, everyone had pumps, when I came around to be attacked by the dozen or so Pepper Poppers, after 9 were down and I started loading, and my muffs cut the mics back in, I heard SEVERAL mumbles behind me of "W.T.F. was THAT????".
hehehe--- that was an autoloader gentlemen............................. hehe

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 Post subject: Re: semi vs pump
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:44 pm 
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Oblio13 wrote:
Pumps and revolvers are ancient technology. Modern semis are superior in every way, including reliability.


You ain't right.

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 Post subject: Re: semi vs pump
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:33 pm 
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Oblio13 wrote:
Comparing pump shotguns to autoloading shotguns is like comparing revolvers to semi-automatic pistols.

Pumps and revolvers are ancient technology. Modern semis are superior in every way, including reliability.

Shooting a pump from any position but offhand is problematic. And short-stroking one in the heat of the moment creates quite a jam. If you haven't done it yet, it's because you haven't shot much.


And if your autoloader hasn't ever jammed, it's because you haven't shot it much.


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 Post subject: Re: semi vs pump
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:42 pm 
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In combat competition I have seen more malfunctions with pumps than semi-autos.

This is not because modern pumps are unreliable. To the contrary, the Remington 870 and Mossberg 590 are probably as debugged and proven as any mechanical device can be. The weak link is the shooter who sometimes gets in a hurry and short strokes.

Problems with semi-autos usually stem from under powered ammo or not firmly shouldering the weapon. For example, a father and son both used the same 20 GA Remington 1100. The father whizzed through the course without a problem but the son, a tall lanky 11 year old could not get three rounds off in a row without a jam. He was holding the gun properly but just did not have enough lead in his butt to give it enough resistance to cycle properly.

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 Post subject: Re: semi vs pump
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:29 pm
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Location: Columbia, MO
I have never understood folks short stroking often. Have done it? Yes, but only a few times. It’s like the yips and totally fixable. To me you won’t short stroke if you have the process as number one in your mind. Shoot, slam back, slam forward, reacquire target, shoot. I see a lot of friends when they shoot a pump concentrate too much on the target and not cycling the action then hurry to catch the target. With a semi sure you only have one thought, the target, with a pump you actually have to forget the target. Just get the action cycled properly or you don’t even get a chance at a follow up shot. The speed will come with time.

I started out shooting clays with a pump and I learned early to not hurry your second shot, clear the gun then worry about your second shot. Obviously, that is shooting clays not tactical but, the habits built can totally help. Over time you get faster and eventually proper cycling of the action becomes second nature. I attribute my confidence in the pump to shooting a lot of clays with it.

Or you can just be mean as heck to that action and you won’t short stroke, ever.


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 Post subject: Re: semi vs pump
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:35 pm 
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rem870com wrote:
There was a "semi vs pump" discussion on a local forum and one of the discussed disadvantages of the pump was its slow shooting speed, so I created this video to shot that you can shoot pump fast :)

https://youtu.be/trjm5mEXvbk


Very impressive. Good shooting, indeed!


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 Post subject: Re: semi vs pump
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 3:15 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:47 pm
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To answer your 2nd question the Mossberg 930 with a Choate PG full stock is very reasonable priced and if you add a Limbsaver recoil pad the combination of your hand absorbing some and the fantastic Limbsaver your shoulder will thank you..




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