It is currently Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:49 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Trying to identify a Union Armera...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:39 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:36 pm
Posts: 115
Hi all,

Wondering if any of you would be able to offer me some information about a gun I just bought. It's a Union Armera rounded body 5-pin sidelock. It has hand removable locks with safety sears, disc set strikers, gas escape ports, an articulated front trigger, and the word "safe" engraved in gold atop the action.

Did Union Armera produce specific "models" in 1978? Because as seen in the picture below, the words "The Imperial" are engraved on the inside of the forend iron, but Google produces no results when I search it.

Image

Here are the proof marks on the barrel flats:

Image

Anybody know what I have on my hands?



_________________
"At home a friend will ask, 'Been bird hunting?' You will say that you have, and when he asks, 'Have any luck?' You will think of what you have held in your heart instead of your hand, and then answer that you certainly did..." - Gene Hill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trying to identify a Union Armera...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:11 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 266
I will offer an opinion . I believe that Imperial does not refer to a UA model , but to a model offered by the importer who purchased several guns to his specifications. Often the bulk purchase enabled a few upgrades for the regular price. Try to compare the engraving on your gun to existing and discontinued models. Post a picture here and one of the Grulla experts will probably tell you almost instantly. It certainly looks pristine.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trying to identify a Union Armera...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:24 am 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:36 pm
Posts: 115
volleyfire wrote:
...I believe that Imperial does not refer to a UA model , but to a model offered by the importer who purchased several guns to his specifications. Often the bulk purchase enabled a few upgrades for the regular price...


That's a good insight; thanks! I hadn't considered that possibility. However I'm pretty certain that the engraving will not match the engraving of any other UA. The previous and first owner purchased the gun in the white from Grulla, then sent it to London to be engraved at John Wilkes on Beak Street. It has never been shot, and in fact was never 100% finished. There was never a bead or recoil pad installed. It's now at the gunsmith getting those final two touches.

_________________
"At home a friend will ask, 'Been bird hunting?' You will say that you have, and when he asks, 'Have any luck?' You will think of what you have held in your heart instead of your hand, and then answer that you certainly did..." - Gene Hill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trying to identify a Union Armera...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:24 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 266
Kyrie!

I think they are messing with us! People keep asking questions and only giving us about half the information needed. I think they're just trying to see if we can dream up an answer.

Yes, I would say John Wilkes would be considered a model upgrade.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trying to identify a Union Armera...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:54 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:36 pm
Posts: 115
volleyfire wrote:
...People keep asking questions and only giving us about half the information needed...


Haha, sorry! I was trying to decide which details were most pertinent, rather than drifting into a diatribe that nobody wanted to read. If you want the whole story, here it is...

The gent who sold it to me is a man named John who was smithing for a now defunct high-end German gunmaker in Pennsylvania at the time by the name of Paul Jaeger, and thus worked alongside trained gunsmiths from around the world. Well, one of these gunsmiths was taking a vacation to Basque, and picked this gun up in the white on a visit to the Union Armera workshop. He brought it back, and John liked it so much that he bought it from him. He then handed it off to another one of the smiths, an Englishman, who had previously worked for Purdey before coming to the US on a work visa, who was going home for a visit. This English smith, I assume being well connected in the London gunmaking scene, apparently worked out a deal with John Wilkes, who was appointed gun and rifle maker to the Prince of Wales. I was told that John Wilkes was planning a special present for Prince Charles for some occasion or another, and so offered to engrave this gun in their shop in exchange for what I imagine must have been a superlative Mauser action, which the English smith also brought with him.

I have airway bills showing the Mauser and the Union Armera leaving the US, but the Union Armera alone returning. So the story seems to hold some water, and an interesting story it is.

So I suppose what I'm really trying to figure out is, what was this gun destined to be if Union Armera had kept hold of it. At this point, the gun has taken on a character all its own, which is fine with me.

_________________
"At home a friend will ask, 'Been bird hunting?' You will say that you have, and when he asks, 'Have any luck?' You will think of what you have held in your heart instead of your hand, and then answer that you certainly did..." - Gene Hill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trying to identify a Union Armera...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:15 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 266
I think you may be messing up by cutting off about an inch of figured wood to put a recoil pad on that gun. It is easy to see you are all weighed down by the project. I could take it off your hands for a couple of bucks, and relieve that overwhelming sense of stress and uncertainty.

I remember Jaeger very well, impeccable reputation.

Don't keep us in suspense. I'm sure we all want to know what kind of gun the Prince would use to swat a pheasant. How long are the barrels? What type of rib? Etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trying to identify a Union Armera...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:27 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:36 pm
Posts: 115
Oh don't worry, I'm not removing any wood. Like I said the gun was not finished, thus no checkered wood butt. The LOP is 14 1/2" to the unfinished end of the wood. I'm adding a pad without taking any wood off, which is perfect because I need a 15 1/2" LOP.

As soon as the gun gets back from the smith I'll take a couple nice pictures and post them.

_________________
"At home a friend will ask, 'Been bird hunting?' You will say that you have, and when he asks, 'Have any luck?' You will think of what you have held in your heart instead of your hand, and then answer that you certainly did..." - Gene Hill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trying to identify a Union Armera...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:17 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:36 pm
Posts: 115
Having received the gun back from the smith, I can say he did an OK job, but the pad isn't perfect, so I'm going to have it shaped up and leather-covered to finish it. I think a leather pad will make this gun look even better. Here it is:

Image

And a couple close-ups:

Image
Image
Image
Image

_________________
"At home a friend will ask, 'Been bird hunting?' You will say that you have, and when he asks, 'Have any luck?' You will think of what you have held in your heart instead of your hand, and then answer that you certainly did..." - Gene Hill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trying to identify a Union Armera...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:17 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 266
Pretty gun. How long are those barrels, 28"?

Get yourself a new gunsmith to cover that pad. Make sure the butt is sealed and completely dry before the pad goes back on. Then you can put some oil on those rough edges where the first gun smith marred the finish. At least he stopped sanding before he got down to the wood. It is a shame to marr good figured wood.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Trying to identify a Union Armera...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:34 am 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:36 pm
Posts: 115
volleyfire wrote:
Pretty gun. How long are those barrels, 28"?

Get yourself a new gunsmith...


They're 27 1/2" which is just about perfect for me. Yeah I'm pretty disappointed with this gunsmith. Won't be visiting them again. :?



_________________
"At home a friend will ask, 'Been bird hunting?' You will say that you have, and when he asks, 'Have any luck?' You will think of what you have held in your heart instead of your hand, and then answer that you certainly did..." - Gene Hill


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 1958jr, 3andsomedust, 5 Stand Dan, B.L.E., Bass3, Basstar, bgouker, Big John, bigbluedodge, Bing [Bot], birddogs4me, Brit101, C725, captjsjr, casonet, Cedar, clays@wis, CLuttrell, codyman, Cons69rs, cowpoke, cubsfan, D McMillen, Darkhorse60, Dealman, dhb66, drawdc, Eriehunter, fblainen11, Five forks, gdub41, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Gumslough, gunsrus, gunut 1, HawkEyeEarl, hopper810, idsktshtr, IL Duckshewter, ILLINOIS, indianajonze, ithacaskbfan, jay2125, John H, John Henry, Keith H., Keperkey, kolar55, KRIEGHOFFK80, la angler, labloverva, lowgun, mactownbob, Majestic-12 [Bot], Maser, max harris, Medic911, migunshooter, Mike Noel, Mike-Sid, mortum, Mule Driver, nhithaca, No Recoil, oldshotty, opfats, oregunner, oyeme, Patently Obvious, psf3, rbjammin, Researcher01, Rooster booster, rschrager, SG4343SG, Slimchance, stevenc1311, SunINmyEyes, SuperXOne, TazManiac, Tidefanatic, Tijeras_Slim, Toolmaker777, Trapper John, Turpentine1, Tvbh40a, Va Hunter2, viking


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
© 2017 Carbon Media Group Outdoors    - DMCA Notice