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 Post subject: 391 20 Gauge Not Feeding Certain Shells from Magazine
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:44 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:17 pm
Posts: 118
This 391 has been reliable for years when loaded with two shells for skeet/trap/sporting clays. It is now used by a grandson.

BUT, If we load a couple of 3" shells (turkey hunting or duck hunting), or if he loads three shells of any length, there are problems feeding those shells from the magazine to the carrier/lifter. And SOMETIMES the shell will stick in the magazine during a round of clays (one round loaded directly into the chamber and the 2nd round inserted into the mag).

I replaced the magazine spring -- nothing changed.

I tried to order a new magazine follower (just in case), but it's on backorder at Brownell's.

I used a long "bottle cleaning" bush and M-Pro 7 cleaner on the interior of the mag -- flushed it with brake cleaner (non-chlorinated).

Nothing helps. What can be causing this ??



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 Post subject: Re: 391 20 Gauge Not Feeding Certain Shells from Magazine
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:48 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:28 pm
Posts: 896
Location: Fresno,CA
Mid West Gunworks has followers which could be it? Is the carrier getting in the way?

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 Post subject: Re: 391 20 Gauge Not Feeding Certain Shells from Magazine
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:23 pm 
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Location: Fresno,CA
Just another thought, are you tripping the mag release placing a shell on top of the carrier?

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 Post subject: Re: 391 20 Gauge Not Feeding Certain Shells from Magazine
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:56 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:17 pm
Posts: 118
Docterduck wrote:
Just another thought, are you tripping the mag release placing a shell on top of the carrier?
1. I'll order a follower from Midwest. I really don't see how this could be the issue -- the original follower moves freely in the mag tube. But I don't know what else to try.

2. I tried tripping/activating the mag release/cutoff button when the shells were sticking in the mag tube -- makes no difference in allowing the shell to be pushed out of the mag tube by the spring. Getting the "stuck" shells out (whether using the mag release button or allowing the "inertia" system to work) involves prying gently on the rim/base of the shell with a small screwdriver, or gently pounding the but of the gun on the ground to allow "physics" and gravity & the mag spring to slide the shell out.

3. Went to the local gun club today and kids shot ~250 rounds through the gun (mixture of Winchester 2.75" 7/8oz. 1200 ft/sec and Federal 2.75" 7/8 oz. 1200 ft/sec.). All loaded/fed flawlessly, like any other 391.

4. The hunting ammo that jams in the mag tube every time are (a) Hevi-Shot 3" 1 oz 1150ft/sec and (b) Federal Premium "Heavy Weight Turkey loads, 3"1.5 oz. 1100 ft/sec.

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 Post subject: Re: 391 20 Gauge Not Feeding Certain Shells from Magazine
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:22 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:49 am
Posts: 5053
Location: Southwest Georgia, USA
Here are a few ideas to try. http://www.refugeforums.com/threads/beretta-urika-391.843397/ I'd also try another trigger group and see what happens.


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 Post subject: Re: 391 20 Gauge Not Feeding Certain Shells from Magazine
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:27 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 3655
Are you hitting the magazine cut off by accident? 20 gauge guns should already have the bent carrier. If you have a Briley release installed check it also.


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 Post subject: Re: 391 20 Gauge Not Feeding Certain Shells from Magazine
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:58 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
Posts: 5965
Location: Colorado Springs, Co
lt0026 wrote:
Are you hitting the magazine cut off by accident? 20 gauge guns should already have the bent carrier. If you have a Briley release installed check it also.


Did all the 20 ga 391s have the bent shell lifter?


Last edited by Dr Duk on Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 391 20 Gauge Not Feeding Certain Shells from Magazine
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:00 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 3655
Yup.


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 Post subject: Re: 391 20 Gauge Not Feeding Certain Shells from Magazine
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:57 am 
Gunsmith
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Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:46 pm
Posts: 825
Location: Commerce Michigan
Not what you want to hear, but the 20ga 391 is fussy with ammo. It's the nature of the beast and you're going to have to find what ammo will and will not work with it. Been there a hundred times.


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 Post subject: Re: 391 20 Gauge Not Feeding Certain Shells from Magazine
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:46 pm 
Presentation Grade
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:28 pm
Posts: 896
Location: Fresno,CA
dawg23 wrote:
Docterduck wrote:
Just another thought, are you tripping the mag release placing a shell on top of the carrier?
1. I'll order a follower from Midwest. I really don't see how this could be the issue -- the original follower moves freely in the mag tube. But I don't know what else to try.

2. I tried tripping/activating the mag release/cutoff button when the shells were sticking in the mag tube -- makes no difference in allowing the shell to be pushed out of the mag tube by the spring. Getting the "stuck" shells out (whether using the mag release button or allowing the "inertia" system to work) involves prying gently on the rim/base of the shell with a small screwdriver, or gently pounding the but of the gun on the ground to allow "physics" and gravity & the mag spring to slide the shell out.

3. Went to the local gun club today and kids shot ~250 rounds through the gun (mixture of Winchester 2.75" 7/8oz. 1200 ft/sec and Federal 2.75" 7/8 oz. 1200 ft/sec.). All loaded/fed flawlessly, like any other 391.

4. The hunting ammo that jams in the mag tube every time are (a) Hevi-Shot 3" 1 oz 1150ft/sec and (b) Federal Premium "Heavy Weight Turkey loads, 3"1.5 oz. 1100 ft/sec.

I mag followers if plastic do get worn. I have replaced several for my clients. Have you tried only loading two shells not three just to see what happens? I would go there first. Then the ammo brand.

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 Post subject: Re: 391 20 Gauge Not Feeding Certain Shells from Magazine
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 10:09 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:17 pm
Posts: 118
Docterduck wrote:
Have you tried only loading two shells not three just to see what happens? I would go there first. Then the ammo brand.
It feeds all brands of ammo just fine if (a) we only load two shells and (b) the shells are of 2-3/4" nominal length.

Hunting loads (3") won't feed out of the magazine tube.

If we load two shells in the mag tube (making a total of three, counting the shell inserted into the chamber), the shells won't feed out of the magazine.

I ordered a new follower, but they are backordered.

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 Post subject: Re: 391 20 Gauge Not Feeding Certain Shells from Magazine
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 10:20 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 3330
Location: Dallas, TX
Did you lightly lubricate the inside of the mag tube? Just making sure the follower isn't getting snagged up in there.

If you load 2+1 3" shells, can you manually eject all of them by cycling the bolt? Can you do the same with 2.75" shells?


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 Post subject: Re: 391 20 Gauge Not Feeding Certain Shells from Magazine
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:00 am 
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dawg23 wrote:
This 391 has been reliable for years when loaded with two shells for skeet/trap/sporting clays. It is now used by a grandson.

BUT, If we load a couple of 3" shells (turkey hunting or duck hunting), or if he loads three shells of any length, there are problems feeding those shells from the magazine to the carrier/lifter. And SOMETIMES the shell will stick in the magazine during a round of clays (one round loaded directly into the chamber and the 2nd round inserted into the mag).

I replaced the magazine spring -- nothing changed.

I tried to order a new magazine follower (just in case), but it's on backorder at Brownell's.

I used a long "bottle cleaning" bush and M-Pro 7 cleaner on the interior of the mag -- flushed it with brake cleaner (non-chlorinated).

Nothing helps. What can be causing this ??


If the gun cycles these 3" shells OK manually, but won't cycle properly when actually shooting, then you may need to change to a lighter gas valve spring.

Also, the problem might be excessive bolt speed which is related to the heavier loads. This might be fixed by a new recoil spring (in the buttstock), but I think it's more likely a gas valve spring issue.

Semi automatic shotguns work as a "system" and the timing can affect how well things work. Oftentimes, if you switch to a much heavier or much lighter load, you may need to change something else in the system to compensate to keep it in proper timing. Granted, the 391 is SUPPOSED to handle both 2 3/4" and 3" shells interchangeably, but on certain guns, particularly after several thousands of rounds on the existing springs, you might encounter issues. Sometimes also, it depends on WHOM is shooting the gun. It may work well for one shooter, but not another.

Hope you get the problem worked out.

EDIT: After re-reading your post a couple of times, particularly the part about a 2 3/4" target load sometimes sticking in the magazine, it sounds like a magazine type problem. You might try lightly sanding the existing follower until you can get a new one. It's also possible that the magazine tube has a slight dent in it.

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 Post subject: Re: 391 20 Gauge Not Feeding Certain Shells from Magazine
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:12 am 
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Quote:
It feeds all brands of ammo just fine if (a) we only load two shells and (b) the shells are of 2-3/4" nominal length.


Quote:
And SOMETIMES the shell will stick in the magazine during a round of clays (one round loaded directly into the chamber and the 2nd round inserted into the mag).



You have posted conflicting information. See above. Which is correct?



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Semi-Auto Classifieds is ONLY for Complete Semi-Auto shotguns.
Over/Under Classifieds is ONLY for Complete O/U shotguns.
Items other than a complete shotgun go in OTHER Classifieds.


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