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 Post subject: Re: Does the all around .410 exist?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:38 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:52 pm
Posts: 1200
Location: Grayling, MI
No buddy hunts in thicker cover than I do for grouse and woodcock. I have dragged banged bumped my SP1-410 for over 8 years and it looks great. In fact I have sustained more damage on skeet and sporting fields than while hunting. I use it for sporting clays and out to 40 yards it works fine. I do not compete so I use my hunting load 11/16oz of #8 at 1225 fps. Chokes from .005" to .015" will do it all skeet to 40 yards dove. SKT, IC, Lt-Mod, & Mod. And that baby frame is balanced way way better than pump/semi. Next is a good SxS my CZ is great for the money but most doubles run pluse $3,000




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 Post subject: Re: Does the all around .410 exist?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:27 am 
Presentation Grade
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 7:19 pm
Posts: 656
Location: Indian Head Country Wisconsin
Tjen,

Is the sp1 on a true scale 410 frame or is that a 28 gage or 20 gage frame? And would a true 410 scale frame actually be too whippy for game birds?


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 Post subject: Re: Does the all around .410 exist?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:04 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:08 am
Posts: 252
Location: North Pole, Alaska
Patently Obvious wrote:
Tjen,

Is the sp1 on a true scale 410 frame or is that a 28 gage or 20 gage frame? And would a true 410 scale frame actually be too whippy for game birds?


I have the Berettas in 410, 20 and 12 gauge. I measured the receivers on the 20 gauge and the 410. The 410 is smaller. Not sure how the 410 receiver compares to the 28 gauge version.

My 410 SP 1 has 28 inch barrels and I weighed it compared to my 20 gauge SP II with 28 inch barrels. The 410 actually weighs more (6 lbs 13 oz) than my 20 gauge (6 lbs 9 oz). I have no idea why the 410 SP 1 weighs more than the 20 gauge version. Neither shotgun is whippy.

I used to own a 26 inch barrelled SP II in 20 gauge and that gun was whippy. I "fixed" it by installing extended chokes. It handled "properly" after that. I sold it because I wanted actual 28 inch barrels.


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 Post subject: Re: Does the all around .410 exist?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:43 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:52 pm
Posts: 1200
Location: Grayling, MI
The Baby Frame is a scaled 28ga frame and the smallest O/U frame. The SP1-410 is on that frame. For a all round hunting, sporting, skeet gun the Beretta 686 SP is it. Barrels in 26.5", 28" & 30" add Briley extend chokes and your set. Have not weighed it but it is lighter than my SP3-20/26" handles just like the SP3-28/26"


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 Post subject: Re: Does the all around .410 exist?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 6:13 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:04 am
Posts: 94
JER2 wrote:
Don't drag your guns on the ground behind you as you walk and they'll last much longer.

This + 1


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 Post subject: Re: Does the all around .410 exist?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:43 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 24917
Location: Missouri
I just paid $200 cash at a pawn shop for a really nice Mossberg 500 .410 with a 26” full choke VR barrel.

I’ve said some pretty catty things about Mossberg 500s.

But mine has a good trigger pull (most Mossberg 500s feel like the safety is on when it’s off), and it feeds 100% if pumped, for doubles, although deliberately single loading my crappy reloads as singles occassionally gives it a slight hitch at the chamber mouth. When it picks up a shell from the magazine it’s as reliable as a crowbar. Ejection is 100%, and you can pluck all the hulls out with no problem.

It handles and shoots three inch shells.

For a .410, it patterns well at 25 yards. It’s a .410, so that’s not saying much. I’ve found that if you get one, that full choke .410s suck the least on a pattern board. At 25 yards it’s pattern is as wide as a 12 or 20 gauge Skeet or IC pattern would be.

All in all, I’d recommend a Mossberg 500 .410 for anybody that’s not too proud to shoot the cheapest .410 pump at the big box store. They work. They are “full sized” and well balanced, and my sons and I shoot it about as well as any other full sized pump or semi auto. It weighs about six pounds.

This Mossberg functions like a brand new 12 gauge Model 12 compared to the Japanese Browning Model 42 I owned once. Two or three unsuccessful trips back to Browning and it went down the road.

.410 repeaters are ammunition finicky. The Mossberg 500 .410 is the best one I’ve owned yet. If you fed it new shells or good reloads (not always easy to get in .410) it’s always reliable, and even handles sub par reloads if shucked briskly.

For $200 you can’t buy two flats of new AA .410 shells unless there’s a sale on.

Mossberg may make the best all around cheap .410.

_________________
I have never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as a reason for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


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 Post subject: Re: Does the all around .410 exist?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:56 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2961
Location: Mid-Missouri
SuperXOne wrote:

Mossberg may make the best all around cheap .410.


They make the ONLY cheap .410 around. Walmart sells the .410 Mossberg pump for less than $300. Other than foreign made single shots nothing else is close. The only problem is that the current Mossbergs have 24" barrels.

BTW, I just took one like yours in on trade at the shop. I may have to take it out for some evaluation.


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 Post subject: Re: Does the all around .410 exist?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:09 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 24917
Location: Missouri
I took my Mossberg 500 .410 down last night to clean it, and noticed there was a feed ramp below the chamber that looked like one on a 1911 Colt.

Colt did a lot better job of polishing the feed ramp.


My feed ramp showed rough tool marks, covered by the bluing. A few minutes with a half round diamond file and it’s smooth now. A Dremel tool polishing is now in order.

When a Mossberg .410 picks up a shell from the magazine, a set of dual extractors grab the head, hold it, and the shell lifter then guides it straight into the chamber. Single load a shell, and it might not be captured by the extractors, and the end may need to go up over the feed ramp. It’s a neat design, taken from the High Standard pumps, that borrowed it from the Remington 31. It ought to work better with a polished feed ramp.

The .410 is the red headed stepchild of shotgun bores. Even factory AA Winchester .410 shells have poor crimps, although their ends are tapered,,,,for one use. Reload a .410 and a tapered end becomes secondary to just getting a crimp. Ballistic performance is awful, regardless of choke. The tiny half ounce of shot scrubs the bore and scatters quickly, leaving holes in the pattern at thirty yards. It’s a pest gun for shooting snakes in the garden.

My dear father gave me a single shot .410 when I was eight, on advice of his quail hunting buddies. When I was ten he gave me his Sweet 16, and the first time I shot it, was the only time I was ever angry with Daddy, for making me hunt two seasons with such an inadequate shotgun.

I didn’t tell him, though. I just resolved to never give a defenseless kid a .410 as their only shotgun, and I haven’t. A gas auto 20 gauge in a youth model is a far superior learner gun for a kid.

Yet if you were going to punish a kid by giving them a .410 to learn on, the Mossberg 500 would be one of the least bad choices.

At least they work, and it’s a pointable, well balanced gun that’s usable to about 25 yards,,,30 with three inch shells. My Iver Johnson Champion often wouldn’t eject a shell, and sometimes wouldn’t even extract one, and became hard to load. Daddy carried a take down rod to punch the shells out of mine, and clean the chamber. . A perfectly clean chamber was the best solution, but it would foul and get sticky within a full box of shells. Even today I’ve seen cheap .410 Turkish doubles with the same problem of tight chambers. The Mossberg 500 will extract and load and shoot, always.

And for an adult, they are a barrel of fun to try and shoot skeet with.

_________________
I have never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as a reason for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


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 Post subject: Re: Does the all around .410 exist?
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 5:59 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:52 pm
Posts: 1200
Location: Grayling, MI
SuperXone, My .005" skeet chokes pattern super at the 25 yard mark they were designed for. For sporting clay's the .009" IC patterns great to 35 Yards. The tightest choke I use is Lt-Mod .012". Most fixed full chokes I have seen pattern way to tight for under 40 yards. Not all chokes are equal. My CZ 410 Mod patterns perfect for 25 to 35 yards and the IC does 15 to 25 yards just fine.

That CZ SxS is the 410 I wish I had as a kid perfect for most small game like rabbit, squirrel, grouse, quail, woodcock, & dove. I had a single shot bolt action with a full choke (too much choke). Kids have faster reflexes and eye sight do not under estimated them or a 410. The original poster is an adult wanting a perfect 410 O/U. A silver pigeon 686/687 is it in O/U 410's.

Shoot about 5,000 rounds a year split equally between the 28 gauge & 410. Another 1000 in 20 gauge. I guess I see the 410 as a serious and very capable shot gun within its means. And that is out 40 yards on small targets.




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