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 Post subject: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:12 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:34 am
Posts: 40
Location: Blairsville, GA
A year or so ago I bought about a dozen flats of 12 GA.Winchester AA target loads when they were on sale. They were a mix of the Grey hull Super Sporting Sporting Clays Load, red hull Heavy Target load and red hull light target load. Over that time I shot them up and started reloading them. The performance of the reload has been very good. No misfires, no squibs, great patterns etc. I've used the same recipe on all of the reloaded hulls (18.5 gr Titewad, Claybuster 1100-12 wads, Winchester 209 primers, #8 Lawrence magnum shot).

I've shot the whole batch now twice, once out of the box and one reload. On the second reload, the grey hulls look almost new with no burn marks at the crimp and no other problems. The red hulls aren't doing so good. About 10% of them have burn marks at the crimp and vertical slits in the plastic just under the crimped section and on the crimp lines. The red hulls (plastic body) also seem to be just slightly bigger in diameter. They fit in my OU after being reloaded but are noticeably tighter when inserting into the gun. The brass is sized down correctly on both color hulls and fits no problem.

Has anyone else experienced this with Winchester AA hulls. It seems like an odd problem and I can't understand why a difference in color of the hull would effect the quality of the plastic. Thanks for any insight.




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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:18 pm
Posts: 405
Yup. Reds don't seem to be as tough.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:27 pm
Posts: 2
To my eye the grey hulls use a different type of plastic and it appears to be slightly thicker than the red hulls. I only use grey hulls for reloading AAs.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:05 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:34 pm
Posts: 6809
Location: NE Oklahoma
When I shot 12 gauge and used AA's I noticed the same phenomena as you've described.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:03 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:05 pm
Posts: 1528
Location: S.E. Pennsylvania
I'm not a big fan of the new style AA's. I'm reloading basically a lifetime supply of the old CF type but if I see once fired grey ones laying I'll take them. Will not touch the reds.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Location: S.E.Wisconsin
The color of the dye can have strange effects on the plastic. I am not saying that this is what's causing the issues you are seeing,just saying its possible.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:30 pm
Posts: 3
I don’t have any old cf style AA hulls and notice no difference in the newer gray or red hulls.
I don’t even sort them and I’m on the 5th reloading of roughly 1000.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:59 pm
Posts: 92
Unlike most here I prefer the reds to the grays. I’ve always thought they held their crimp a little better. I only use aahs for 3/4 and a few 7/8. Mostly use Remington hulls

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:44 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:30 pm
Posts: 74
Location: Wyoming
Winchester says they are the same material. I also use the same load for CF and HS, and Red or Grey interchangeably.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:32 pm 
Reloading Expert
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:31 pm
Posts: 17669
Location: Kearney NE
I've got and have loaded both old and new style, both red and grey/silver from day one of each kind. Lot to lot, year to year, decade to decade, some lots of each are much better or worse than others. I've noticed no consistent trend in over 50 years. Same in the other gauges. Some are great, some not so much regardless of hull color, print color, or logo design. Just depends on what batch you happen to have.

BP

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:05 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:34 am
Posts: 40
Location: Blairsville, GA
I like loading Winchester HS hulls and I like my recipe so I'm going to stick with them for now. My crimps come out perfect and all the components fit well. The current Winchester AA promotion is solving my problem of short life span of red hulls. Dumpster diving is improving at my club. Seems like everyone is shooting AA's and throwing them away. I've hit on the mother load of grey hulls lately.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:00 pm
Posts: 12
luke.... where is your club?


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:36 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:34 am
Posts: 40
Location: Blairsville, GA
moorewhiskey wrote:
luke.... where is your club?


Sorry, I can't give away my honey hole at this time. :D Still have lots of hulls to pick up.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 4:35 pm
Posts: 2
The color tint has a big effect on the performance of plastic; especially under heat and stress. The very old AA red hull when it was compression formed had heavy metals in it to help it flow properly, that changed when they went to the 3 piece hulls and extruded plastic tube like modern AA hulls.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2018 7:05 pm
Posts: 5
In Australia, we used to have several different Win AA CF case colours, gold, red, black, blue, green, brown. The last 3 were not branded as winchester. If memory serves, the brown ones had a good reputation for reloading life. They were branded as Browning cartridges.

Of the first three, the black ones seemed to last longer as they did not look as 'dirty' or worn as the red or gold ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 6:47 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:57 pm
Posts: 149
Have read this quite a bit. I've wondered about this also.

In theory, there could be a difference in that...they are different. For Win to say they are "the same" ignores the fact that the die is different. I don't know much about synthetics but IIRC didn't Glock have some problems with frame integrity with one of their color batches? And the base material there was said to be the same, too.

Anyway, I don't know the answer, but they aren't "the same" if they are different colors. Something, maybe not very important or important at all, but something IS different.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 6:53 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 5648
People often forget the two hull colors have a different firing history: the grays started out life as a hotter handicap load, and the reds as a target load. Will the differences in heat/pressure/internal ballistics have an effect on hull life? That's anybody's guess.

My experience has been like BP's: there is no universal rule, as the lot-to-lot variation seems to overshadow everything else.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:23 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:57 pm
Posts: 149
I've never loaded the gray hulls. You guys that have, have you experienced the burned hull mouth with them?

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:23 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:57 pm
Posts: 149
I've never loaded the gray hulls. You guys that have, have you experienced the burned hull mouth with them?

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester AA hull color differences
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:40 pm
Posts: 687
I have about the same success with both red and gray hulls. Burn marks and slits at the crimp are more visible on the red hulls.




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