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 Post subject: Re: Lead Buckshot Findings
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 7:45 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:35 am
Posts: 725
Location: Alabama
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
Have you dared look a SAAMI regs that tell you the allowed size variance of the shot?


SAAMI publishes "voluntary standards" for member companies.




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 Post subject: Re: Lead Buckshot Findings
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 8:05 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:57 pm
Posts: 155
RMc wrote:
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
Have you dared look a SAAMI regs that tell you the allowed size variance of the shot?


SAAMI publishes "voluntary standards" for member companies.


YES.

And never to be forgotten!!

By the way, a sack of "Field Grade" Remington lead BB's I bought went .177 for 26 miked. Not too bad I don't think. Interesting the average worked out to be the nominal diameter of steel BB's used in air rifles.

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 Post subject: Re: Lead Buckshot Findings
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:31 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 3276
Location: Newton Kansas
RMc wrote:
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
Have you dared look a SAAMI regs that tell you the allowed size variance of the shot?


SAAMI publishes "voluntary standards" for member companies.

Who are those member companies?

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I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Lead Buckshot Findings
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:35 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 3276
Location: Newton Kansas
RMc wrote:
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
Have you dared look a SAAMI regs that tell you the allowed size variance of the shot?


SAAMI publishes "voluntary standards" for member companies.

Incidentally, what exactly are the benefits of NOT following the guidelines your own industry fellows 'recommend' you follow?

How do those up-sides compare with the liability down-sides in the nation with more lawyers than the total of the rest of the world combined?

_________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Lead Buckshot Findings
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 11:57 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:35 am
Posts: 725
Location: Alabama
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
RMc wrote:
OldStufferA5#1911 wrote:
Have you dared look a SAAMI regs that tell you the allowed size variance of the shot?


SAAMI publishes "voluntary standards" for member companies.

Who are those member companies?





http://www.saami.org/member_companies/index.cfm


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 Post subject: Re: Lead Buckshot Findings
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:52 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:59 pm
Posts: 93
I’ve never messed around with smaller buckshot sizes. I mostly use 00 because that’s what my gun/choke combination prefers. 0 buck makes for a good fit inside a shot cup for 12 gauge. I used a lot of 0 buck in my early years but it’s popularity has faded some.
When I reload my own buckshot, which isn’t often anymore. I use Hornady 00 is pellets. I always found it to be well polished and very consistent in weight and diameter. I have heard good things about BPI’s product as well. It’s been awhile but IIRC it mic’d at .33 to .335 and weighed in at 54 to 55 grains. I have cut open some Remington, Winchester, and Federal loads. Both the Remington and Win. Buckshot was generally right around .33 and weighed from 52 to 55 grains. The pellets in the Rem. and Win. were not as polished and shiny as Hornady shot. Federal buckshot on the other hand, surprised me. In general the pellets always seemed to be about a size smaller in weight and diameter than the actual size listed on the box. Federal premium copper plated 00 mic’d out at .315 with an avg weight of 49 grains. That in my way of thinking is 0 size. Not 00. I cut several of these open as I had some that got wet. I suspect that size pellet eis used because of the fact that .315 diameter pellets fit perfectly in a 12 gauge shot cup and don’t cause pellet bulges on the outside of the hull. Winchester and Remington don’t use a shot cup, they use buffer material, which allows for the slightly larger diameter of true 00.
I don’t load much buckshot any more because my gun shoots very good patterns with factory buckshot. The best thing I ever did as far a buckshot pattern consistency goes is to start using Pure Gold chokes. But for 00, I found through testing, in numerous guns, that their .696 is not the best choice. Their 25 or improved modified choke consistently produced more uniform patterns with higher pellet counts at long ranges with 00 buck. Amazingly, my a400 will put 16 of 18 pellets of Remington 3.5” 00 buckshot @ 65 measured yards in a 30” circle. And will do 10 of 10 pellets of 3” Rem 000 at same distance and target size. Both are quite tight and I use Win 3.5” 00 most of the time as my hunting load. It’s a little more forgiving and usually gives me 12 to 14 pellets under the same conditions and 6 to 8 pellets in a 12” inner circle. I was a dealer and had their chokes at my disposal so we did a lot of patterning with different constrictions but only for 00 and 000. Since we use our shotguns for deer, those two pellet choices are the most appropriate. I would think the .696 or maybe even a little tighter would be better with the smaller shot sizes like 1,2,3,and 4s. Results with the 25 were not that impressive with number 1s.
I know I went off on a tangent with chokes and patterns but I figured that stuff might be of interest to folks that use buckshot.

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“A gun is a tool, it’s just like any other tool. It’s only as good or bad as the man using it.” Alan Ladd. “Shane”


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 Post subject: Re: Lead Buckshot Findings
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:33 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:57 pm
Posts: 155
Turpentine1 wrote:
I would think the .696 or maybe even a little tighter would be better with the smaller shot sizes like 1,2,3,and 4s. Results with the 25 were not that impressive with number 1s.


Very interesting stuff.

I have 2 870's. One a '50's gun and one a '70's gun. Then I have the following bbls:

Mossberg 18" cyl
2 Remington factory 30" vent rib fulls
1 Remington factory 28" mod {original to the '70's gun}
1 Remington non-VR full {original to the '50's gun}
1 Remington non.VR full cut to 26" cyl {with brass screw for front bead lol}
1 Target Sports 26" VR Chicom made with tubes.

The Chicom barrel patterns tightest with an FN Xtra Full tube on all the large shot I've tested EXCEPT #4 and #2 Buck. The #2 likes the Modified bbl and the former the full chokes sort of but really I cannot get #4 Buck to patter very tightly from any barrel.

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Domine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum: sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea.


Last edited by Valdemar on Thu May 17, 2018 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lead Buckshot Findings
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:13 pm 
Shooting Instructor
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:35 am
Posts: 725
Location: Alabama
Indeed interesting!

My favorite is the 3 Inch Dixie Slugs Tri-Ball Buckshot round. This factory load, or my equivalent handloads, generally hold <4 inch patterns at 40 yards and <8 inch patterns out at 55 yards from my 12 bore 870 with a Briley .695" constriction extended full choke. The 22 gauge*, (.60"), buckshot pellets weigh in at 315 grains each!

* 00B would = 136 gauge pellets, that is the number of .33" pellets that would equal 1 pound.


Last edited by RMc on Fri May 18, 2018 6:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lead Buckshot Findings
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:31 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:59 pm
Posts: 93
If the 4s are your reloads, are you using a wad with a shot cup. For smaller buckshot, I had always thought about a heavy, steel shot type wad. They make some that are unslit. I would slit them as little as possible. And use a felt or cork filler wad as a cushion in the bottom of the shot cup to reduce damage during setback. A load built like this at a moderate velocity should have good pattern potential. For loads that use a shot cup, pattern master chokes, work amazingly well. Patternmaster chokes are report to have no constriction, but the ones I’ve had measure, interestingly enough, 25 thousandths constriction or improved modified.



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“A gun is a tool, it’s just like any other tool. It’s only as good or bad as the man using it.” Alan Ladd. “Shane”


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