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 Post subject: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:17 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:33 am
Posts: 121
Good Evening,

I am thinking about getting an O/U for clay games. I've been shooting (non-registered) skeet for 3 - 4 years now with my Mossberg 500 pump. It's "slicked up" now and the shots I miss I suspect I would have missed anyway had I been using an O/U or a semi.

I am well aware of Brownings and Beretta's so please don't recommend them. I'm certainly considering them but they are so well known and available that I don't need to ask about them here. I'm looking for input on some different guns. And I'm only looking at 20 gauge.

I just found out that two gun shops in my area carry guns I didn't expect to find locally, so:

What is your opinion on the SKB 90TSS? What is your opinion on the F.A.I.R. Racing Sporter?
Any input on these brands in general or other models in these lines?

Any input on the B. Rizzini line? The Vertex seems to be a possibility.

The F.A.I.R. website didn't have much in the way of specs. My budget is modest so Zoli, CG, and probably Fausti are not in play unless you know about budget models that I don't.

Thanks for any input.

Dan




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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:55 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:34 pm
Posts: 6813
Location: NE Oklahoma
Everything you're asking for any opinion on are third-rate guns, at best. Sorry, but that is the way it is. You would be far better served getting a good, used B-gun than a new Turkish or budget Italian models.


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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:18 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:14 am
Posts: 262
Location: New Hampshire
The OP stated that he is aware of the usual "B" guns, and was specific about what shotguns he was requesting information on. He even asked politely, not to recommend the "B" guns to him due to his being familiar with them already. I'm sure that you meant well Mr. Vette Jockey, but there are other choices out there besides the "B" guns. The OP is exploring his options, and just because a gun is not a Beretta or a Browning, does not mean that it is not capable of breaking clays on a regular basis. The OP is aware of the "B" guns, but is interested in something different. If you have no specific knowledge or information to offer regarding the OP's specific questions, then maybe let someone who has that info offer him advice...

Regards,
Joe


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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
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Location: Colorado Springs, Co
Vette Jockey wrote:
Everything you're asking for any opinion on are third-rate guns, at best. Sorry, but that is the way it is. You would be far better served getting a good, used B-gun than a new Turkish or budget Italian models.


This is good advice. {hs#


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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:46 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:09 pm
Posts: 977
Location: Henderson, Nevada
The B. Rizzini guns are not budget guns and are equal to Browning and Beretta shotguns in every way. If you are able to handle some, I think you will be impressed.


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 Post subject: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:32 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 8157
Location: Kansas
Check out Ceaser Gurenni (sp?). Excellent guns for the money as is the B Rizzini

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:59 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 24917
Location: Missouri
An over and under is a pure luxury item. All shotguns are somewhat luxury items, but the over and under is purely something you want, and don’t need.

Upgrade your main shotgun, first.

A young man at our club is buying every gauge of Tristar gas shotguns the big box stores sell, and I’m very impressed with them. The latest one has a red receiver and 30” barrels, and I consider it about the equal of my Berreta 391 in all respects, except resale bake.

But when a gas auto sporting gun only costs about $500 new, resale value should be a concern.

After over thirty years of trying to buy that elusive shotgun, after which I shall never want another, ive determined the only over and unders to buy as new guns are Caesar Gurernis. For about a thousand more than a B gun, it’s sonething you can really be proud to own decades later.

Until you can comfortably buy a luxury over and under, buy a good, usable Turkish gas gun, and see what a soft kicking gas auto sporting shotgun does for your scores and enjoyment.

Get the gun in 12 gauge.

The small bores are for folks that already have too many twelves.:)

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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:26 am 
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TriStar? I’m not so sure I would go so far as you about them. Poor choice in my opinion

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:54 am 
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casonet wrote:
TriStar? I’m not so sure I would go so far as you about them. Poor choice in my opinion


I used to agree about Turkish guns like Tristars, but the Turks have upped their game.

This young man at the club let’s me shoot and take his Tristars apart, and Ive decided they are righteous.

Here’s about their finest, a $600 fancy walnut stocked G2 Bronze.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mob ... 0/redirect

These guns have no pretext of being heirloom, luxury shotguns. They are modern plastic and aluminum repeaters. But so is my Beretta 391.

The gas auto Tristars are virtual clones of a Beretta gas gun. They look and feel good to shoot. There’s no tooling marks, and the Turks can watch a CNC milling machine make parts as well as Italians can. Why pay B gun money for a modern gas auto when for $400-600 the young shooter gets an excellently designed, well made, soft shooting gas auto he can shoot and not worry about dents, scratches, resale value, and even take it hunting if he wants?

The shooter that doesn’t reload should not mind his gas automatic spitting out the shells.

The shooter that’s into reloading ought to have at least one luxury over and under, and the Caesar Guerini is where the luxury brands start.

So if the OP wants a better gun than his good, reliable, Mossberg 500, I think the next step up is the newer Tristar Sporting Model gas auto guns.

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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:08 pm 
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I shot a brand new CZ 28 ga pump the other day and so many shells stuck in the chamber and would not extract that I could not even get through one box and gave up. We used to sell CZ guns here at our club in KC and we quit because we had so many problems with them. Is this the kind of quality and reliability that you are talking about? I can give you a long list of names and phone numbers if you want to verify.

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"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:02 am
Posts: 22301
Location: Plainfield, IL
DanTheFarmer wrote:
Good Evening,

I am thinking about getting an O/U for clay games. And I'm only looking at 20 gauge.



Thanks for any input.

Dan


Going 20 gauge only limits your choices and I'm not sure what price bracket you are really considering. I've never seen a FAIR Racing Sporting O/U anywhere, except at the SHOT Show in 2017. FAIR product has historically been good (Savage Milano) but parts and service are always a question mark.

Although you don't want to hear it, there isn't much in the way of a highly desirable, cheap O/U out there. Every year, folks seek it but it hasn't happened yet. So, if the low price of the gun is the main factor, go used. You'll be happier in the long run, and likely in the short run as well.

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http://randywakeman.com


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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:43 pm 
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casonet wrote:
I shot a brand new CZ 28 ga pump the other day and so many shells stuck in the chamber and would not extract that I could not even get through one box and gave up. We used to sell CZ guns here at our club in KC and we quit because we had so many problems with them. Is this the kind of quality and reliability that you are talking about? I can give you a long list of names and phone numbers if you want to verify.


This young man must have money tree in his backyard, because he brings a new Tristar about every week to the club.

The Tristar over and unders he brings do not impress me.

The gas auto Tristars impress me, a lot.

They take Mobile chokes. All inside parts are good, sturdy, and might interchange with a Berreta gas gun, except the Tristar design is simpler in several ways. Function is 100%. They all print dead center on the plate. I can’t find any fault with them.

The Turkish lira is just in the toilet compared to the American dollar. Not only does an American dollar buy a lot of Turkish goods, the Tristar gas guns are based on a design that goes back for decades, the Beretta gas guns.

It’s hard for us gray hairs to admit it, but a $500 shotgun today is about like a $100 shotgun was forty years ago, and the new gun buyers spend more than $500 every couple of years on new smart phones.

If a young shooter tires of his $500 gas Tristar, he can always swap it off and get something else.

He’s better off buying a new Tristar than all these old American smokepoles I’m so fond of.:)

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I have never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as a reason for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson


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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:37 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 242
Location: Western Tampa, FL
casonet wrote:
TriStar? I’m not so sure I would go so far as you about them. Poor choice in my opinion


If you disassemble a TriStar gas auto next to a Beretta you will find some definite differences in quality of components. One has a very simple, no plastic, not overly complex gas compensating spring system and many plated parts. The other is a Beretta. Is the Beretta worth 2-4 times more? That is a question only you can answer.

No offense intended to all the Beretta aficionados but those are just facts. I agree with Randy's recommendation and think an inexpensive O/U is not a good way to go. Instead maybe a good quality semi automatic? If you look in the semi auto classified section of SW you will find some very high quality FABARM products for a lot less than any O/U and they will serve you very well for all your shooting needs. Many have gone to gas autos from O/U and never looked back.

The TriStars work and in some models are quite attractive especially for the $s you will spend. They have a 5 year no nonsense warranty compared to 1 year for Beretta. If you want to really elevate your gas auto experience, IMO you should look at FABARM who also has a 5 year warranty. Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:00 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:33 am
Posts: 121
Thank you for the input. Predictably, I did my own thing and ordered a F.A.I.R. Racing 20 gauge. It should be in next week. I'll post updates.

It was in the $2k range so it was at or just a bit below the "B" guns (at least in my locale) price-wise. Now I'll hope that the quality is at the "B" guns range as well.

Sometimes early adopters get a high quality product at a good price which later goes up as the good reputation spreads. Sometimes they get left holding the bag. I'll try to be honest as to which camp I'm in when I post an update!

Dan


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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:27 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:09 am
Posts: 82
Here is my take on it...

I don’t own any fancy brand shotguns.

I own Browning, Beretta, Remington, and Benelli.

One of the largest facts of life is generally... “You get what you pay for”.

I know labor costs are low in most of Asia (which Turkey is part of I believe). So yeah. They can build and assemble firearms of equal build at lower costs... but not that low. You get less known materials, their machinery is not near as nice as what “first world” countries use in manufacturing, etc... and customer support is usually shoddy and annoying at best to deal with...

Not to mention. There isn’t much pride in work there. Low labor costs add up to poor living conditions. Those people aren’t exactly going to be happy to go to work for dirt poor wages and such.

Think about Taurus. Occasionally some guy will rave about how great they are. But their sour reputation is fairly well earned. I’ve seen more broken Taurus firearms than any other brand. And their customer service is crap.

I hope the shotgun you purchased works out well for you! I’ve currently only got a Citori but am going to add a silver pigeon 1 in 20ga later this year sometime! The citori works well for me! So did all my autos!


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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:16 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:14 am
Posts: 262
Location: New Hampshire
Dan, I'm glad to see that you went with your first instinct and got the F.A.I.R. At times, seems like the world wants us to compromise our freedom of choice, and place us in the box of conformity. You are not getting some cheap POS from a third world country. You ordered a fine Italian made sporting gun from a reputable company. Just because it does not have a name beginning with a "B" does not mean it won't break clays as good as any other shotgun. Good luck with you new purchase, and I hope you will be extremely happy with it.

Regards,
Joe


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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:09 pm 
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Location: Indian Head Country Wisconsin
Tristar Bronze are decent guns and at 600 bills hard to go wrong if you like nice wood. As stated above, no plastic in the action and nice bluing. Want a different barrell length and it’s polished blueing? $200. Want a black barrel nut instead of bronze? $4.00. I’m almost to the point with smart phone prices at $800 that I consider $600 dollar shotguns that will last 2-3 times as long a bargain.

I’ve also gone over to the R side. Over the course of a year a 525 and a 686 left. A br110 in 28 gage, a 20/28 gage combo, and a 12 gage came in. One a B. Rizzini, and two fair Rizzini Verona labels. You can get gold inlays and nice wood for way cheaper than a B gun. Quality for the non registered shooter not putting 5-10k a year down the barrels more than adequate.

Image
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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:36 pm
Posts: 1281
Location: Northeast Ohio
Dan...I am very much looking forward to your updates and reviews.

Congratulations and enjoy!


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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:53 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:33 am
Posts: 121
Good Afternoon,

I picked up my shotgun on Thursday afternoon and shot 3 rounds of skeet and 1 round of trap this morning. It worked flawlessly. I like the way it fits and feels. Shooting an over/under is quite different than shooting my pump. I had done a good job training myself to fast and "unconscious" with the pump but this was much simpler and faster. Track bird, pull trigger, track second bird, pull trigger. I like this.

The gun came in a nice Negrini hard case and included 5 chokes (cyl, imp cyl, mod, imp mod, full) and choke wrench. I didn't spot any cosmetic or mechanical imperfections. A couple of odd things lead me to believe F.A.I.R. is not quite sorted out as it tries to market its new line. First, the price was misquoted. I ended up paying more than $200 LESS when I went to pick up the gun. Also it came with an adjustable stock and ported barrels, neither of which I was expecting. I had looked at the website and at the catalog in the gun store. Perhaps I missed what was right in front of my face or perhaps the gun store did something wrong, but no matter. In the end I got a better gun at a lower price than I was expecting. Win Win.

I'll try to figure out how to post pictures and will post further updates. The real test will be how it holds up at my rate of 5000 shells/year.

Dan


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 Post subject: Re: A Couple of Related Questions
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 9:52 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:09 pm
Posts: 977
Location: Henderson, Nevada
Dan,
I'm glad you enjoy your new gun.
It sounds like you got a good deal.




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