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 Post subject: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:08 pm
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Hello all. I just acquired a Abercrombie & Fitch I believe to be a Merkel . I would like to add pictures but have no idea how to do so. It has 26" barrels and is in very nice condition ( my opinion ) but for a small hair line crack about 3/8" long in the stock right behind the reciever left side top. My most pressing question is if this ok to shoot new ammo ( 1200 fps ammo ) through it because of it's age and small issue of the stock . I have quite a few pictures and would love to share if someone can advise how to do so. Thank you .

Dan

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Last edited by dmit on Wed May 02, 2018 11:01 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:59 pm 
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I wouldn't until you get the stock repaired

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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Would it be safe to shoot new ammo ( 1200fps ) once the repair is made?


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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Location: Massachusetts
In regards to posting pictures, here is a thread on this forum that explains how.

viewtopic.php?f=74&t=460765

If you can post photos of the barrel flats, people will be able to confirm how the gun was proofed.

I am fairly confident that your shotgun would be fine to shoot with modern. All 28 gauges are chambered for 2 3/4" shells, and since Merkel mfg. that gun for the American market, I would bet it was proofed accordingly in anticipation of the higher pressures that are seen over here.

The serial number should be able to tell you what year it was made, which is another detail to consider. Most people would tend to use lower pressure, lower velocity loads with older guns. By older I mean before WWII.

As mentioned by OneOunce, be sure to get the stock repaired prior to shooting or you can exacerbate the problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:08 pm
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Got it for the pictures and thank you very much. If anyone can provide information on this shotgun I would greatly appreciate it. I will definitely get the stock fixed before shooting it. There is a local smith that is a wood master but if not available who would be the best to do the crack repair and overall condition tune if needed?


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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 4:57 pm 
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Looks like a very nice gun, but that deep Merkel action looks bulky with the 28-gauge tubes, but then so do my Superposeds. We need to look at the proof marks to see what shell it was made for.

Quote:
All 28 gauges are chambered for 2 3/4" shells, and since Merkel mfg. that gun for the American market, I would bet it was proofed accordingly


From the introduction of the 28-gauge here in North America, circa 1898, the "standard" load was 1 3/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder, or 14 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite, pushing 5/8 ounce of shot from a 2 1/2 inch shell.

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There was also a 2 7/8 inch shell in which one could get a slightly hotter load of 2 drams of bulk smokeless powder, or 16 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite, pushing that same 5/8 ounce of shot.

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Those were the 28-gauge loads offered here until early 1931, when Western Cartridge Co. added the 28-gauge to their progressive burning powder, high velocity loads, Super-X, with a 3/4 ounce load put up in their 2 7/8 inch FIELD shell.

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Circa 1938, our ammunition companies began offering their 3/4 ounce 28-gauge Skeet Loads put up in a 2 3/4 inch case, but the 28-gauge hunting loads were still put up in the 2 1/2 inch and 2 7/8 inch cases. Shortly after WW-II all our 28-gauge cartridges were being put up in 2 3/4 inch cases.


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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 5:19 pm 
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I added pictures of proof marks. If better pictures needed I will take them. There is a number circled at the end of series of marks which is 28-70


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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:55 pm 
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That 28-70 would be for 2 3/4 inch shells, but those appear to be Belgian proof marks. being made for the 2 3/4 inch shells it would likely be post WW-II.


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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:07 pm 
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It is indeed Belgian, and may be a Francotte. The date code just above the barrel weight mark looks to be a cursive 'p' which would be 1937
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=232252

Bob Beach may have records on the gun
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=393236

re: repair. Where are you?

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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:24 pm 
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I am in Redding CA.
Also added a close ups of the proof marks


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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:12 am 
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You may be in luck Dan.
Dan Lammers is a Krieghoff specialist, but might check and clean, and do the repair
dlprecision@netzero.com
Redding, CA
530-275-5970

Please tell him to come back to Phoenix

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Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:10 pm
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More likely to have been made by ARMAF than Francotte. Serial number could be 45299 or 45300. Both were 28 gauge guns built by ARMAF for A&F and received in 1936. Post the serial number to be certain.

Bob Beach
Archivist
Griffin & Howe, Inc.


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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:10 pm
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Location: Morristown, NJ
Just to follow up on my above reply, the OP was able to provide the serial number and the shotgun is a Francotte, one of the first Francotte OU's received by A&F. The gun was one of two ordered by a CT industrialist and was received on November 10, 1937. The guns were the same except for barrel length, weight and stock dimensions. The model of these early Francottes was recorded as a "1936E" (E for Ejector). The model name was likely assigned by A&F rather than Francotte. In 1937 that gun sold for $175.

Bob Beach
Griffin & Howe, Inc.


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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Wonderful information. Thank you, Bob.


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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:33 pm 
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2nds on thank you Bob :)
$175 in 1940 would be about $3100 today. Big money during the Great Depression.

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Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 6:56 am 
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Most folks don't remember the great depression - I was a kid during most of it. And a salary of $20 a week was decent money for a family of four for a foundry worker! And a nickel given to a kid got him into a movie, or a triple-dip ice cream cone!

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 Post subject: Re: Abercrombie & Fitch Co - Merkel 28ga over under
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 11:01 pm 
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Posts: 42
Interesting that it has Purdey style underbolts, something you don't see on the Merkel O/U boxlocks until you move up to the high end 301 model. I think in relative terms, it was a bargain at $175 back in the day.




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