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 Post subject: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:23 am
Posts: 348
I have a 42 with a vent rib, that lists it as Simmons on the rib from Kansas City. Does this have any significance relating to it being original to the gun or was it sent back to Simmons for the rib later?




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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:33 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:07 pm
Posts: 1897
Location: Moore County, NC
No significance. Only significance is it was done by Simmons not Winchester IMHO.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 9:00 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:12 pm
Posts: 338
Location: Oregon
On some of the early M42's the factory subbed out a few vent rib installations to both Simmons and Money Maker. This was before they had their own vent ribs. I have one such gun and it was manufactured in 1935.

The barrel should have the proof mark to the left side of the rib at the rear. If you cannot see a proof mark then the rib was put on after the gun was sold and covered up the proof mark that was on top center of the barrel when the gun was sold.

CT


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 11:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:35 am
Posts: 835
Location: California
Simmons didn't exist until 1945,Don't think a 1935 gun was sent there when it was made. https://www.simmonsguns.biz/elements/pages/about/

Bobcat


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:23 am
Posts: 348
Thanks to all for your input. Gunboy, I read somewhere a while back about simmons ribs with the Kansas City rib marking was for ribs purchased and installed by Winchester. I am not sure if it was for model 12 or model 42 or if I was dreaming. Anyway I'll assume it was the latter.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:56 am
Posts: 8408
Location: Maryland
We can't possibly list all the possibilities. Post pictures of all areas of the rib and barrel breech as well as the serial number and we will do our best to help. Contrary to what is posted by an earlier poster, Simmons marked vent rib Model 42s are sometimes original Winchester production. Careful reading of Combs' book will explain a lot of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:06 am
Posts: 385
Location: Delmarva Eastern Shore
Quote:
old 12 wrote:
I have a 42 with a vent rib, that lists it as Simmons on the rib from Kansas City. Does this have any significance relating to it being original to the gun or was it sent back to Simmons for the rib later?


What kind of rib strut, dounut or oval? What kind of "font" is Simmons Gun stamp on the side of the rib? Lastly, was the receiver re-blued?

It could be a Simmons Gun purchased from Winchester or later gun customer returned for rib installation.

I'm surprised after all these years a "research" article never written about Ernie Simmons Winchester Shotguns. I sold my early Simmons catalogs to LowGun some years ago, so if you ever come across any their a real "treat" to have as not many survived.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:46 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:00 am
Posts: 52
Location: Champaign IL
I have a model 42 with a Simmons vent rib. It is marked kanas City MO. My serial number is 6335 and the receiver has been reblued. I have no idea when it had a vent rib installed. It is a 28" full choked gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 2:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:56 am
Posts: 8408
Location: Maryland
In that serial number range, it definitely did not come from the Winchester factory with the vent rib. No one should pay collector prices for vent rib Model 42s without buying and studying Schwing's book on Model 42s.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 2:34 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:56 am
Posts: 8408
Location: Maryland
In that serial number range, it definitely did not come from the Winchester factory with the vent rib. No one should pay collector prices for vent rib Model 42s without buying and studying Schwing's book on Model 42s.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 10:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:23 am
Posts: 348
Sorry logun, after so many futile attempts to post pics to this site, I have promised myself not to try again in order to preserve my sanity. The serial number is 126069. If you pm me I will forward pics to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 4:52 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:07 pm
Posts: 1897
Location: Moore County, NC
If your gun had a donut base post, without Simmons on the rib, correct squiggly Winchester matting pattern on the rib, correct proof marks and blue finish consistent with guns age and blue style used after 1954, it would be very likely you have a Winchester Special Ventilated Rib Model 42 produced by Winchester. I have one with SN 135XXX and mine is correct as stated above.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 7:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:23 am
Posts: 348
It is not a donut post rib. Guess that answers the question.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:07 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:56 am
Posts: 8408
Location: Maryland
Factory Model 42s with Kansas City stamps are in the very late 160,000 range.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:12 pm
Posts: 338
Location: Oregon
Bobcat,

The rib on my 42 is not a Simmons but a Moneymaker with correct ID and proof marks.

CT


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 12:20 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:56 am
Posts: 8408
Location: Maryland
I have no knowledge of a Moneymaker rib 42 coming from the factory. The good news is that a Moneymaker rib makes a Simmons rib look like a child's toy.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 4:34 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:35 am
Posts: 835
Location: California
Biz history shows Moneymaker est in 1961. https://www.manta.com/c/mmfwc2v/moneyma ... orporation

Bobcat


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 4:49 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:35 am
Posts: 835
Location: California
As for the Winchester proof markings,check here. https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/850750
There are enough roll stamps and proof stamps out there to make a new gun,and some do.

Bobcat


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:12 pm
Posts: 338
Location: Oregon
Bobcat,

I got my M42 out of the safe today to check on it and the rib.
I was wrong about the manufacture date as the serial number is # 597xx which makes it a 1947 production date.

I found and purchased this gun at a gun show in Sacramento, Ca. about 1973 in very poor and abused condition with a plan to have it reconditioned. A friend and shooting buddy looked at it when I got home and proclaimed it to be one of a very few M42's that the factory had subbed out to either Simmons or Moneymaker before they had their own ventilated ribs and this was the Moneymaker.

He pointed out two different proof marks on the rear left side of the rib and said that those and the wavy lines on the top of the rib were machined by Winchester and that confirms that the rib was done for Winchester. The wavy lines are exactly the same as my other Winchester factory ribs. There is no name on the rib but on the left side, on the first rectangular post it is marked "pat pend".
This friend that told me about this gun was employed by Winchester and was the Winchester factory rep for Southern California at that time.

I took the gun to the famous restoration gunsmith J.J. Jenkins and he also told me that the rib was on the gun when originally sold. He had the gun for over a year to put it back into prestine condition.

I beleive that the date you say that Moneymaker was founded was the date that the late Elron Ray Barnes purchased Moneymaker and cannot find out who the original owner was or his starting date.

CT


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 42 vent rib question.
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:54 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:56 am
Posts: 8408
Location: Maryland
We sure would like to see a picture of that Moneymaker rib with the Winchester style matting, as well as the proof marks on the left side of the rib.




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