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 Post subject: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:54 am 
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 1:07 pm
Posts: 12
Although I’ve owned a shotgun or two, and even shot a bird or two, until recently, i’ve Had little interest. I VERY involved in rifle and revolver smithing.see my web site for some recent projects... www.rvbprecision.com
Recently I’ve discovered quail hunting and the shotgun bug bit me.
I picked up a Ithaca 37 in 20GA and it has a God ugly Polychoke on the barrel.
I want to cut it off and shorten the barrel to 26”
Once I remove it, I plan on using my lathe to single point cut the choke. But I know nothing about this choke stuff.
In searching this forum I see this comment....”I'm having a set of 28 gauge barrels choked .003 left, .007 right.”........ what does this mean?
For desert quail hunting , where the shots can be close or relatively far, what would you suggest a fixed choke should be for this 20GA shotgun.
Thanks in advance....



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RoyB
Dartmouth, MA


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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:03 am
Posts: 114
If you cut the Polychoke off (and yes they are ugly, but do work) your barrel is now full bore size. Four options:
1) leave @ cylinder bore for close in shots
2) ream and thread for tubes and install the one you want for the hunting you will be doing
3) jug choke barrel (I have no idea how they do this) ask Mike Olen
4) find new barrel (barrels are different before and after serial #855,000)


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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:03 am
Posts: 114
Forgot, there is a 5th option; back bore the barrel and stop short of the muzzle. Can't get much constriction but it will be in the neighbor hood of IC+ choke. If this gun is an earlier (1945 to 1959) one the barrels tend to be quite thin and usually at a full 0.728"+ bore. I have two @ 0.731"+.

Choke is determined by the actual construction of the muzzle area vs. the bore diameter, not a predetermined muzzle ID dimension. Some Brownings and Mossbergs have actual bores approaching 11 gauge+ and their same size chokes are much bigger in ID than a standard 0.728" bore gun's chokes.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:51 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:07 pm
Posts: 149
Ever seen a competitive shooter use a Polychoke?

Does Polychoke sponsor any shooters or events?

There's a reason for that.

Not only do they look like someone stuck a plum on the end of the barrel, but they are pure snake oil. Uncountable vintage barrels were ruined by the Polychoke fad. Anyone who tells you that his Polychoke patterns well either hasn't actually taken it to a patterning board, or he stared at the patterns like a pig looking at a clock, without comprehending what he was seeing.

Cutting it off will leave you with two alternatives: a cylinder bore, or having screw-in choke tubes installed. The latter will cost more than your gun is worth.

If it were mine, I'd sell and replace either the barrel or the whole gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:40 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 123
those numbers are thousandths of inches the choke is smaller than the barrels internal diameter.
if you cut the barrel off you will have a cylinder bore choke or .000 constriction.
you can't make that any smaller, so you have to add steel to the inside of the barrel... choke tubes.


it's good to see you again Robert.
R5R, Lamar.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:09 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:35 am
Posts: 835
Location: California
If you need a primer on choke installation,this is a good read for the budding gunsmith. https://www.gun-tests.com/special_repor ... vRf6O8vzX6

Bobcat


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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:00 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 9604
Location: Fairport NY
On most Ithaca 37s, you can interchange barrels. If yours is a modern one, buy a barrel threaded for choke tubes, and buy the choke tubes appropriate for your use. (For quail hunting, a Skeet tube (very close birds) and an Improved Cylinder (a little longer range) should work well.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:30 pm
Posts: 43
Location: Southern California
You could always cut it off and leave it open choke. Quail hunting tends to be pretty close shots.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 2:43 pm 
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rbertalotto wrote:
Although I’ve owned a shotgun or two, and even shot a bird or two, until recently, i’ve Had little interest. I VERY involved in rifle and revolver smithing.see my web site for some recent projects... http://www.rvbprecision.com
Recently I’ve discovered quail hunting and the shotgun bug bit me.
I picked up a Ithaca 37 in 20GA and it has a God ugly Polychoke on the barrel.
I want to cut it off and shorten the barrel to 26”
Once I remove it, I plan on using my lathe to single point cut the choke. But I know nothing about this choke stuff.
In searching this forum I see this comment....”I'm having a set of 28 gauge barrels choked .003 left, .007 right.”........ what does this mean?
For desert quail hunting , where the shots can be close or relatively far, what would you suggest a fixed choke should be for this 20GA shotgun.
Thanks in advance....


Yesterday I saw a perfect, almost as new condition, unaltered, late 1950s M37 28” modified choke plain barrel 12 gauge gun for sale in a retail gun shop marked $399. I own four other ones in the same shape, already in all the chokes.

Model 37s are cheap. They are not worth messing with their chokes.

If your barrel says Roto Forged and the serial number is on the side and reads more than 37855000, it’s an interchangeable barrel gun, and the Ithaca Gun Company sells brand new barrels for $250.

If the serial number is on the front of the action and on the barrel, it’s a pre 855,000 gun without interchangeable barrels.

Leave the Polychoke on the gun, regardless. You are a lucky man.

The Poly is ugly but is the best variable choke device ever made. They work as well or better than choke tubes and offer instant choke selection.

Polychoke recently filed for bankruptcy, because all new 12 and 20 gauge respeating shotguns for the last three decades came with choke tubes, and the market for $150 Polychoke installations on older fixed choke guns dried up. But the choke device worked exaclty as advertised.

Here’s nine patterns shot with a 12 gauge A-5 with a deluxe Poly at exactly ten yards.

https://imgur.com/gallery/W78CH

Go shoot your shotgun. It’s not worth the price of two nights in a decent hotel, and never will be. But if you’ll swallow your vanity and shoot the ugly Polychoke you’ll love how your bargain 20 gauge Model 37 shoots.

There are four, and not five, Classic American repeating shotguns that will be treasured forever, made entirely of steel and walnut, They are the Belgian Auto Five, the Winchester Model 12 and Super X Model One, and your gun, the Ithaca Model 37.

There are and were many other excellent repeating shotguns you can buy, but you bought the last survivor of the big four.

Enjoy it, as is.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 2:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 1:07 pm
Posts: 12
Thanks for the great info. Appreciated. The little 37 is a beauty. I’m developing a real case of Thirtysevenitis......but unfortunately, before your sage advise, 8 had a few minutes to spare yesterday and “ off with the polychoke” .....I used a hack saw and then turned a tapered mandrel so I could use my lathe to clean up the cut and make it true. Tomorrow I’ll pattern it and see what it will do.
Yesterday I visited a couple local gun shops and walked out with a High Standard Flight King in 28Ga for $270 and a bran$ new ATI/ KOFS Cavalry in 28Ga for under $500......always wanted to play with a 28Ga but didn’t want to break the bank.
This shotgun thing is getting interesting!

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RoyB
Dartmouth, MA


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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 2:54 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 1:07 pm
Posts: 12
Thanks for the great info. Appreciated. The little 37 is a beauty. I’m developing a real case of Thirtysevenitis......but unfortunately, before your sage advise, 8 had a few minutes to spare yesterday and “ off with the polychoke” .....I used a hack saw and then turned a tapered mandrel so I could use my lathe to clean up the cut and make it true. Tomorrow I’ll pattern it and see what it will do.
Yesterday I visited a couple local gun shops and walked out with a High Standard Flight King in 28Ga for $270 and a bran$ new ATI/ KOFS Cavalry in 28Ga for under $500......always wanted to play with a 28Ga but didn’t want to break the bank.
This shotgun thing is getting interesting!

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RoyB
Dartmouth, MA


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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 3:06 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:02 pm
Posts: 5399
Location: Central Pennsylvania and Southwest Florida
Leave the gun alone. Don't ruin it.

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(Warning: To those that read my posts.)
I don't shoot registered targets so what could I possibly know or have to offer?


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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 3:36 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:09 am
Posts: 74
sleestak wrote:
You could always cut it off and leave it open choke. Quail hunting tends to be pretty close shots.


This is my thought too. I usually use IC in my pumps and autos for quail. This is my first year hunting with a double gun and I’m using Modified over IC. But I may try IC over skeet.

Either buy a new barrel or shotgun all together, chop the end of the barrel off, or leave it be.

Cylinder choke works fine for quail or any close in upland bird.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 4:29 pm 
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rbertalotto wrote:
In searching this forum I see this comment....”I'm having a set of 28 gauge barrels choked .003 left, .007 right.”........ what does this mean?
Some good info here, but no one has answered the question.

Those numbers represent the amount of bore constriction. It is the amount, usually in inches, that the choke is smaller than the bore.

A choke does exactly that, it chokes the shot as it leaves the barrel. The tighter the choke, the tighter the pattern further from the gun. Look at this picture:
Image

What choke to use is a subject of much debate. What is the maximum distance you think you'll shoot a bird at?

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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 10:38 pm 
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I own a cylinder bore 12 gauge M37 and that’s also the best Polychoke setting for skeet and quail.

Just quit winner, and do no more harm.

Don’t waste money on cheap aluminum guns, like the 28 gauge Turkish over and unders. The 20 and 28 gauge High Standard pumps weren’t the same high quality guns as the 12 gauges, either.


For about $400 you could buy a perfect used 12 gauge M37 with a modified choke.

Or a thousand bucks buys a brand new Ithaca Model 37 28 gauge, the finest 28 gauge repeating shotgun made in the world today, by far.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 4:03 am 
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 1:07 pm
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Actually, my plan is to hunt with these 28GA shotguns and decide if I even want to move forward with a subguage . If it proves positive I will have Ithaca build me a gun. I've already spoken to them and I agree. A near hand built 37 is a great value. The two guns I bought are an inexpensive way to explore the 28GA.

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Dartmouth, MA


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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 7:34 am 
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rbertalotto wrote:
Actually, my plan is to hunt with these 28GA shotguns and decide if I even want to move forward with a subguage . If it proves positive I will have Ithaca build me a gun. I've already spoken to them and I agree. A near hand built 37 is a great value. The two guns I bought are an inexpensive way to explore the 28GA.


A twenty eight gauge is nearly the equal of a twenty and both are vastly better as hunting guns than a .410. Neither is half the fun of the .410, though.

It’s essential you not disassemble your HS 28 gauge. Of the hundreds of old shotguns I’ve owned, my sub gauge High Standard pump was the most complex to reassemble. I did put it back together, after a great deal of swearing. It worked well, except it wasn’t smooth to pump. My son sold it to a stranger at a gun show, I hope didn’t recognize him. The insides were made of cheap materials not fit for a mousetrap,,,but the gun did function wel.

The ATI Cavalry gun’s I’ve seen look nice and have aluminum actions. Easy does it on the shell count, or they’ll not hold up.

The owner of a 28 gauge should invest in a reloader. Mine is a MEC 600 Jr. that’s loaded thousands of shells, saving at least half, usually three times, the cost of new 28 gauge shells. I prefer Winchester AA or other Winchester HS hull 28 gauge shells, but the Remington’s also reload well. The 28 and .410 are the two gauges where reloading saves a great deal of money.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 8:16 am 
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Taking advantage of the current Winchester rebates, I purchased a couple cases of 28GA shells for a final number of $59 a case. Not bad .

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Dartmouth, MA


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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 10:32 am 
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Shooting five rounds twice a week, the amateur skeet shooter burns through about a thousand shells a month.

Reloading for 12s and 20s only keeps the shooter in ammo that costs about twenty cents a shell, five dollars a box. He can buy new promotional ammo for the same or just a little more.

But there is usually no cheap promotional 28 gauge or .410 ammo to be found. Many stores only have a few boxes at over $10 per box, sometimes closer to $15.

Reloading 28s is cheap and .410s even cheaper. There are 800 half ounce loads from a sack of shot, and 533 3/4 ounce loads. Wads and primers cost the same and powder slightly more than loading 12 gauge shells (there is no Promo powder for sub gauge loads). Instead of a hundred dollars a flat you’ll spend less than half that to reload 28 and .410. Buy the loaded shells when there are Winchester rebates, and reload.

But the best part of reloading is that it’s fun, and you’ll have lots of shells to shoot, without thinking about the cost.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete new by question....chokes?
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 10:57 am 
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So I just got done patterning the ITA Cavelry over and under 28GA. To say we are impressed would be an understatement. At 25 yards with IC and Cylinder chokes all shot was centered and within a 18” circle. Not sure what I should expect with a 28GA.
The gun handles great. Trigger is very smooth with zero creep.
And at such a light weight, walking around all day will be no issue.
So far.....So good.



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