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 Post subject: Recoil question
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:57 pm 
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I was curious about how recoil affects the body long term. I have been shooting pretty much every weekend for about a decade. I also have two herniated disc on my neck. I get headaches and neck aches ever now and than.I just turned 37 so hopefully I will still have decades of shooting. My question is would shooting a semi righ now hopefully save wear and tear on my neck? Or keep on shooting my fixed breach gun and move to the semi if need be down the road? I know we have older shooters with bad necks who switched to semis. Would you of recommended switching over sooner than later?




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 Post subject: Re: Recoil question
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:00 pm 
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Shoot the heaviest gun you can with the lightest and slowest load. If you can do that with a semi, it might help a little.

Physical recoil is a math calculation. Perceived recoil or "kick", is how YOU feel it.

I would ask your ortho doc.

Personally, I reload a 3/4oz 12 gauge load for practice and fun; they even work both of my Beretta gas guns. I can shoot hundreds of them with zero discomfort.

In your case, proper gun FIT will be critical as well

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 Post subject: Re: Recoil question
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
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Location: Newton Kansas
How it effects "the body" long term will depend on that individual body and the recoil it is exposed to. There is no 'standard' body nor standard gun to work with.
I'm 51, I've been told the trap load I've shot hundreds of thousands of since the 1980s us a retinal detaching shoulder destroyer, yet I am fine. I also shoot much heavier loads, not 1 or 2 but boxes.
I've run a dozen boxes of those trap loads in an afternoon, no soreness, no headaches, no vision issues, nothing.
I shoot thousands of rounds of .45 Auto which 9mm fan boys describe as abusively overpowered and impossible to hit with.
No carpel tunnel issues.
Everyone is different.

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 Post subject: Re: Recoil question
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:12 pm 
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Location: Houston, Texas
If you are jutting your head forward on the stock your sternocleidomastoid, levator scapulae, upper trapezius, scalenes, and pec minor will become shortened over time. Likewise, sitting at a desk with poor posture staring at a monitor causes the same thing. We call it "upper crossed syndrome". It can cause headaches amongst other things, like shoulder impingement and thoracic kyphosis. Performing myofascial release, static stretching on these muscle groups, and isolated strengthening of the opposing and lengthened muscle groups can often correct the issue.

As to recoil, oneounce has that covered.

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 Post subject: Re: Recoil question
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:11 am 
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Thank you for the information. Last weekend there was a bit of pain between the shoulder blades. But I think it was due to the stress of a crazy week of work. I will try some lighter loads and some stretches and hopefully that will help.


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil question
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:38 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 9604
Location: Fairport NY
OK, here are some definite recommendations.

1. Try a 28 gauge (on a 20 gauge receiver) with 8 or 8 1/2 shot. The "little" shell will break any clay on the course, and with the 20 ga. receiver will have enough weight to really minimize what little recoil there is. (It's a great quail, woodcock, grouse and pheasant gun, too!) - Or, as an alternative, handload a 20 ga, with the claybuster 3/4 oz. 20 ga. wads and 3/4 oz. of 8s or 8 1/2s. There are many good recipes for these, and they are economical, too! And they are ALSO low recoil, as well!

2. Get a shooting vest (warm weather) and a shooting jacket (cold weather) jacket that has an internal pocket for either the Browning Reactar (or Beretta's version) recoil pad which fits inside. They are minimal thickness, but really minimize recoil. Check out www.nicashooting.com as they have about every brand of clothing made, (including their own excellent vests/jackets).

As a real "old fart" (I'll be 84 in July) with 3 herniated discs and arthritis of the spine and all the "aches and pains" of age, these work for me, and keep me shooting (mainly sporting clays) at least once per week, and generally more if the opportunity permits.

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 Post subject: Re: Recoil question
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:55 am
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Location: NW Wyo
You didn't say what games you shoot, but if 3/4 or 7/8 ounce loads will do the job, I would consider reloading with and eye towards very light recoil.

My hunting buddy has a similar problem and he shoots a very light 16 Ga. Parker on an "0" frame. We loaded up some very light recoil loads that are effective for Skeet and upland bird hunting.


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil question
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:54 pm
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I have been shooting most of My 64 years and never gave recoil much of a thought. In the last three years I have had two detached retinas , one in each eye. The doctors claim that recoil or heavy lifting at work has nothing to do with My problems , I think they are full of it. If I could turn the clock back 45 years I would shoot nothing more than a 28 ga at skeet and very light loads for trap. once We are past 60 things can change in a big way. Good Luck to All.


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil question
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:46 am 
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Right now I shoot mostly skeet and sporting clays. I do shoot trap as well mostly 16 yards. I have the citori crossover which I feel a bit of kick with. I also have the 1100 competition which is what I was thinking of switching back to.


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil question
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 4:10 pm 
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Location: AZ but dreaming of KS
Probably not helpful for others to share what recoil studs they are when someone is seeking help regarding recoil management, or flinching.
I'm recoil sensitive related to DJD in the neck and back, multiple sports and MVA head injuries, and some other stuff.
Anyone (military) who have suffered traumatic brain injuries may be extremely recoil sensitive.
As SirSkeets implied, the Bunker Trap "crawling the stock" is/will be a big problem

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A trap doubles more erect head position/high rib would be better for your neck, but doesn't work well for skeet and sporting clays

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nor does ATA trap standing straight

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I would suggest an evaluation with a gun fitter and a neutral head position

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and if you are serious about long term shooting, a sliding comb recoil reduction system - there are several
http://www.trapshooters.com/threads/rec ... bs.193103/
or a fully adjustable stock like a PFS, which I believe is offered for your Crossover
http://www.precisionfitstocks.com/produ ... fit-stock/
http://www.trapshooters.com/threads/rec ... em.748649/

As all of us age, continuing to participate in sports we greatly enjoy requires adaptive equipment, or at least personal adaption (change in guns, light loads). At some point it may not be worth it, but it certainly is reasonable to do what you can now to prevent greater problems in the future.

Please let us know what you find has worked for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Recoil question
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 12:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 559
If you are getting headaches after shooting, the usual thought
is that the recoil is effecting you. If you get pain then you should
probably do something to cut the recoil, an auto is a good idea,
also probably a good idea to add some weight to the auto. In
so far as damage to the body goes, I suppose it could happen,
but I have been shooting for about 50 years and it hasn't given
me any damage I know of. I do set my guns up though to reduce
the recoil. A nice heavy auto or a heavy o/u with a PFS makes
a pretty comfortable gun. Wow, look at my stats, joined in
2004 and less than 600 posts.


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil question
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:15 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 9604
Location: Fairport NY
My shooting with the 28 and 20 ga. guns with 3/4 oz. of 8 1/2 shot is primarily Sporting Clays (and on some tough courses, too!). And I keep up with (and often beat) my squadmates and their 12 gauges, too. I normally just put an IC choke in the bottom barrel of my O/U and a Mod choke in the top barrel, and use the selector switch for firing sequence to match the targets at each station.

If and when you reload, stick with an O/U and learn how to stop the hulls with your hand when opening the gun. It's easy. Remember, autos throw hulls a long ways away and you can get a headache leaning over and picking 'em up!

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 Post subject: Re: Recoil question
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 7:32 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 pm
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Location: AZ but dreaming of KS
Very interesting collection of vintage videos showing the effect of recoil when using Pigeon loads; likely 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/4 Dr. Eq.
http://www.trapshooters.com/threads/vin ... ng.514889/

This is Tod Sloan, possibly at West Chester, in recoil
At the 1901 GAH at Live Birds Sloan used a W & C Scott & Son with 1 1/8 oz. and 3 1/2 Dr. Eq. DuPont Bulk http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/S ... 704019.pdf
1 1/8 oz. at 1300 fps in a 7.5# gun would have about 25 ft/lbs of free recoil

Image

There is a reason most of the trap Big Dogs today, are big men and women using 10# guns

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Richard Baxter (1615-1691), Directions Against Covetousness
"Be more careful to use what you have, than to get more."

Kingsley Brown "Shoot more, shop less."


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 Post subject: Re: Recoil question
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:12 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 205
Location: Missoula, MT
I have a recoil reducer and a barrel weight on my gun. They help, as does shooting 1oz loads.

I weight 155 lbs., so recoil is an issue.

Randy




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