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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:46 pm
Posts: 310
Here in Canada, our worst enemy is people moving in next to ranges, and complaining about the noise. The counties and municipalities are closing down ranges, and very few are being built. I did belong to one club run by a corrupt executive, that treated the range as their own. Their interests were handguns and biathlon, so that is where the money went, and they seemed to do what they could to discourage the shotgun sports. I retired and moved a few hundred miles away to a range that is being threatened by people moving in around It, but at least the executive works together for the benefit of the club. And the club that I left voted in an entirely new executive for 2018, and they are rebuilding for the benefit of all members. In both clubs, I volunteered many hours of my time, but all of the work was done by the same five or six people, despite the memberships being 2500 and 1000 members.




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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:34 pm
Posts: 6810
Location: NE Oklahoma
Our club seems to be doing well, at least financially. We're outside of the city limits and own our land. There are residences nearby, but since we're not in the city limits we're a bit insulated from city pressure. Further, it would appear that the neighbors wouldn't have the financial wherewithal to mount much of an attack on us. Nevertheless, we try to be good neighbors and limit our shooting to specified hours, that the neighbors are aware of.

Out of 800+ members, probably only 10-15% are primarily shotgunners. That said, we're throwing enough targets that we buy trailer-loads 3-4 times/year.

The skeet fields, of which there are only two, are well used a couple a mornings during the work week by us retirees. On the weekends, not so much. Trap is doing well enough that we added an overlay to our second skeet field. Five stand seems to be coming on strongly, right now. I don't shoot it, personally, as they open it at a time that's not good for me. However, we've just built a second clubhouse, a covered patio and new stands for that part of our facility.

The trap guys shoot big 50's, at night, all winter long and have enough participation that they have a hard time getting all the targets shot before closing time. I don't know that anyone has tried skeet leagues, but I'd venture that they wouldn't do very well.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 1:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 9606
Location: Fairport NY
There is always the "grandfather" clause, and if the gun club existed first, the "newcomers" can usually be turned off by a good attorney. It's costly, but normally works. (It's always a good policy to be friendly with local officials, as well!)

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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:48 pm
Posts: 445
Location: Queen Creek, AZ
My club east of Phoenix is alive and well. Although we do not have a skeet field, due to land constraints, we do have trap, 5-stand and a 12 station sporting clays course. Last year we threw over 2 million clay targets. The rifle and pistol sports also bring significant income into the club, as does the public general purpose range. This is a private club located on state owned property. It helps to be in a state that is relatively gun friendly.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:36 pm
Posts: 798
Location: California Gold Country
[quote="BobK"]There is always the "grandfather" clause, and if the gun club existed first, the "newcomers" can usually be turned off by a good attorney. It's costly, but normally works. (It's always a good policy to be friendly with local officials, as well!)[/quote]

That's what Pacific Rod And Gun club in San Francisco did until the Park and Rec department had better friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:49 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:01 pm
Posts: 118
Location: long island n.y.
The 2 private clubs nearest to me have along waiting list ...one at about 8 years
The other is less but still a few years
There are 2 public ranges and I'm glad they exist , wouldn't be able to shoot otherwise


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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:37 pm
Posts: 267
I am not an official spokesperson for our gun clubs. Strictly my observations. The gun clubs in south Louisiana took a really hard hit due to the crash in the oil industry. The oil industry was a major supporter of sporting clays in our area. The clubs are hanging on, thankfully with full schedules of fundraiser tournaments and registered shoots.

A frequent topic of discussion here is trying to get new blood into the sport. The average shooter age for our registered shoots is probably in the mid 50's. I see a lot more younger shooters at registered shoots in East Texas than we have here. Wish I knew the solution.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 6:02 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 9606
Location: Fairport NY
Take a kid shooting! Teach 'em safety, and start 'em off at station 7 on a skeet range so they can hit some easy low-house targets to get 'em interested.

And see about starting some high school trap teams! It works!!

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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:21 am 
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Introducing kids to the shooting sports is a great idea, but for the overwhelming majority of them, they will quit shooting once Daddy stops paying for it. When they get to be young adults, they will find other things to take their attention, time, and money. If we're lucky, they may get back into the sport when they turn 50.

Meanwhile, if you want some new shooters in the next few months and years, I think it makes more sense to appeal to those who have the disposable income right now. This would be your middle to upper-middle income adults in the 45 to 55 year old range.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:46 am
Posts: 5966
Location: Colorado Springs, Co
Just found out Quail Run in Colorado is closing next month.
It was my favorite place for Sporting and for training my dogs on the preserve part.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:37 pm
Posts: 267
I think Ulysses hit the nail on the head. We have active 4H shooting groups but they move on to something else when parents quit paying. It would be awesome to appeal to say 25 to 45 years old with disposable income, but . . . .

In TX is seems to be more of a family activity than it is here in south LA.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:49 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:28 pm
Posts: 29
claytbuster wrote:
Of the 7 clay throwing clubs I have shot at here in California, 3 are gone due to lead or noise issues, and 1 is under pressure to close . Even after switching to steel shot or meeting EPA standards.


I hope thats not Triple B here in SoCal. There are so few places to shoot around Los Angeles as it is.

In my estimation the shotgun sports suffer from the same problem that I see in Fly Fishing - it is so cost prohibitive to get started that only people with disposable income get into the sport so the manufactures market mostly to people with disposable income. Those people are typically middle aged. Who else could afford a $600 Yeti cooler or a $1000 pair of SIMMS waders?!?!?! The same people who can pay $5k for a shotgun. It's a catch 22.

PS: I also thought this thread was about Remington Gun club shells, lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 12:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:16 pm
Posts: 3004
Location: New England
.

The only issue I have with my club (over 25 years, now) is that we STILL have members that think other members are their Mothers, to pick up all their empties off the outdoor ranges & firing points.


.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:43 pm
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We are lucky in Wisconsin. Gun clubs here are healthy for several reasons, one of which is due to legislation that passed several years ago. We almost lost a club for noise complaints. I'd recommend a similar effort from your state legislature:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/0 ... rotection/


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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:59 am
Posts: 76
I haven't been to all the clubs in my new area, but the ones I have tried, seem pretty quiet. Kind of worrisome when you arrive at a club and there is nobody shooting anywhere on the property. It makes getting in a 100 bird practice pretty quick, but you can't help but think the venue may not be around much longer when nobody is shooting.

The club I shot at today is pretty sad in some ways. Right near the clubhouse is an abandoned trap field, a few steps from that the last stand of a 5 Stand course I have never seen a person on. The Sporting Clays course starts just beyond the first 5 stand position and three or four Sporting Clays positions in sits the last Skeet Field, always empty, lonely, seems kind of sad walking by it.

I hope it stays open as it is very convenient for me to access. I may try signing up for an upcoming league and see how that goes. The age demographic thing is definitely a challenge for the industry, the kids prefer video games to outdoor activities, or at least, so it seems.

As far as club politics, once in a while you get a group of leaders who really have it together, most times not so much. I always had a rule of thumb about HOA leadership, that goes something like this: The last person who should be on an HOA board is usually the President and the best possible person you could pick, won't have anything to do with it. I think gun clubs tend to be the same way.

On the equipment snobbery, if you think it is bad when someone shows up with a pump, just wait for the reaction when they squad up for a round of skeet and the youngster with the 870 smokes all the old timers with their K and P guns... Katy bar the door. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 2:18 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Independence, MO
Well, I guess I would be the type of person you are looking for so I will chime in with my hurdles.

I have shot skeet / trap a handful times in my life. Tried to get into it during college, but couldn't afford it. Now that I am at a stage where I can afford it there are a few hangups. Just starting out and having no gun, no skill, a very rudimentary idea of what I am doing, and no one else that I know into it. Trying to talk any friends into it and the sticker shock of a round of skeet (non member prices) plus the cost of ammo, before even talking about needing a gun and they run back to their consoles.


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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 18465
Dr Duk wrote:
Just found out Quail Run in Colorado is closing next month.
It was my favorite place for Sporting and for training my dogs on the preserve part.


Did they say WHY they are closing?
Is it home encroachment, CO anti-gun sentiment or something else?

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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:41 pm 
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Quote:
In my estimation the shotgun sports suffer from the same problem that I see in Fly Fishing - it is so cost prohibitive to get started that only people with disposable income get into the sport so the manufactures market mostly to people with disposable income


Someone can get started with a 870 pump and a 4 pack from wally world. You have to get them IN the door before you throw K-80s and primo ammo at them.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 4:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:36 pm
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Location: Add 1500 to the number above!
oneounceload wrote:
Quote:
In my estimation the shotgun sports suffer from the same problem that I see in Fly Fishing - it is so cost prohibitive to get started that only people with disposable income get into the sport so the manufactures market mostly to people with disposable income


Someone can get started with a 870 pump and a 4 pack from wally world. You have to get them IN the door before you throw K-80s and primo ammo at them.


Yeah, but they don't want to :) As we all know, the gun ends up being the cheapest part of the equation. I've estimated that at this point it costs me close to $9.00 to shoot a round of skeet at my club using factory ammo. I can skinny that down a bit because I reload sub-gauge, but for those that don't reload, it's minimum $5.00/box. This is best case. If I shoot twice a week, at four rounds an outing, that's $72.00/week = $288 month. I suspect sporting clays is the same or more, plus travel time. When I was serious about the game, I could easily shoot 12 - 20 rounds a week and now we're talking about a whole bunch of money. Put in perspective, $300/month is a car payment for some, or a nice kick into a college or retirement fund.

In truth I think it's disposable income AND time. I can afford to shoot for the most part, but I don't have the time. Many older shooters have both - it's easier when you don't have commitments with your kids all weekend and in the evenings. It's one of the reasons I stepped back from the competitive ledge. I need to be there for the family and that's just how it is. I can't spend 2-3 days at the State Shoot, or 7-10 days at the world shoot. It's hard for me to completely burn one Saturday a month at a local/area shoot. There's really no way for a club to cater to a guy like me - wait 6 years and hopefully I'll step it up when my life is less complicated. That's not a great answer for a club trying to find ways of attracting more shooters to keep their doors open, but that's reality. I'd like to think that there would be a constant influx of guys in their late 40s and early 50's filtering in, but in the case of Skeet, that's clearly not that case around here. Those that do filter in gravitate towards sporting clays.

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 Post subject: Re: Gun clubs falling away for one reason or another.
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:09 am
Posts: 82
CriscoKid wrote:
.

The only issue I have with my club (over 25 years, now) is that we STILL have members that think other members are their Mothers, to pick up all their empties off the outdoor ranges & firing points.


.



We don’t require people to pick up spent cases on our local club range. There is a pool a few inches deep off the front of the firing line full of steel cases.

A group of local retired guys come and collect all the good reloadable stuff.

I don’t mind the leaving of good brass for others to collect. I prefer it over throwing them in the trash bin with used targets and water bottles. But we need some magnet sticks to pick up the steel cases and mandate that all steel and aluminum ammo be picked up!




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