It is currently Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:26 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:05 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 10:26 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Wouldn't be stealthy if I disclosed that
Hello i need some advice or if anyone is willing to share a recipe I would really appreciate it. I need to load up some 9 pellet 00 buck and I have tried the whole swap the buck for shot but I don't like doing things so sketchy and was hoping y'all could help me.

The componets that i have on hand is all i have to work with for the time being.

I have; 2lbs green dot, 1lbs home cast 00 buckshot,
200 BPI 3/8 waxed fiber wads, Once fired win super x hulls, Once fired Federal/Rio hulls, Once fired win universal hulls, And some new Cheddit hulls.
For equipment I have a Lee loadall II, Hand rollcrimper, Lee powder scale, And Lee powder dipper set




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:05 pm 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:20 pm
Posts: 10277
Location: Alvin, Texas
For reloading Slugs, Buckshot, Lead Birdshot, and Steel Shot. You need a copy of Lymans Shotshell Reloading Manual. Issue #5 is the latest, (although several years old).

This manual will give you all the information you could possibly need to reload Shotshells.

DLM

_________________
DLM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:52 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 933
Here's Hodgdon's website. They have recipes for buckshot. Here's the one they have for 9 #00 buck, using the Winchester CF or HS hull (Universal fits this category). You need to buy the appropriate components.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/shotgun

Lead Buckshot 9-#00 LEAD BUCKSHOT
Manufacturer
Powder
Primer
Wad
Grs.
Pressure
Vel. (ft/s)
Hodgdon
HS-6
Win. 209
WAA12F114
30.0
8,400 PSI
1,250


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 8:55 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:59 pm
Posts: 222
If you load 00 into a petaled wad in the standard three column configuration (3 and 3), you’ll end up with pellet bulges outside of the hull. I have used loads that called for petaled wads but trimmed the petals off. Factory 00 like Remington and Winchester don’t use a petaled wad. They use fiber wads and buffer. Federal does use their flight control wad but their 00 busckshot actually mics at .315 to achieve proper fit. It also weighs 49 grains which in reality replicates single 0 in diameter and weight.

_________________
“A gun is a tool, it’s just like any other tool. It’s only as good or bad as the man using it.” Alan Ladd. “Shane”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 8:58 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:40 pm
Posts: 273
Location: NE Massachusetts
Hi Stealthy,

Since I've used a lot of Green Dot over the years to load buckshot, I can say for sure that there are really only 2 published, specific buckshot loads using this powder. These are in the BPI Buckshot Manual, and both use the Trap Commander Wad, which isn't really the best set-up for 9 pellet OO Buck loads (but it's a great wad otherwise). In both cases, 22 grains of GD is used in a Cheddite hull (what they call "MultiHulls") for velocities of 1265-1280 fps with a 1-1/8 oz load. Like Dave said, you're going to need to buy other components, or go with a substituted load.

As an aside, I long ago concluded that 22 grains of Green Dot was a kind of universal load for 12g in straight-walled hulls. I've never found a load that was over pressure with non-magnum primers and 1-1/8 oz of lead or less. Card wads will always run lower pressures than fancy plastic wads like the Trap Commander, so this is a very safe substitution, just might not have quite the performance.

Best of luck,

FullTang


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:21 am 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:35 am
Posts: 731
Location: Alabama
Turpentine1 wrote:
...Factory 00 like Remington and Winchester don’t use a petaled wad.


Winchester has heard the music and responded with a one piece plastic wad for their buffered Super-X 9 pellet 00B load. The AA12 style wad has a deeper shot cup, is made of a harder plastic that the AA12 series wads used in AA target loads. And yes, the pellets measure less than nominal.

Remington has long loaded its 9 pellet 00B Express round with a one piece plastic "Power Piston" wad. I might add, this Remington round is stacked two pellets per layer - except for the top layer, which has only one pellet. This seems to be a combination of tradition, competition and profit as that lone pellet invariably flies wide of the pattern. Remington is missing a marketing and product performance opportunity by not producing a 10 pellet 00B round instead!


Last edited by RMc on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:35 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:59 pm
Posts: 222
I stand corrected. I’ll admit I don’t use much 2 3/4” buckshot. I use 3” and 3.5”. If I were going to use a petaled wad for 12 gauge, I’d drop back to single aught 0. It’s a much easier fit in a 12 gauge hull.
I had the Lyman 5th and BPIs buckshot manual. I also may have a recipe or 2 that I got from Precision Reloading. I can’t remember if the flood ruined them. I’ll have to look and see if I can find them.
I always used a Fiocchi hull, hornady 00, a gs2 air wedge, a Teflon wrap, and a 20 gauge cork filler. But that was for a 3” load. My goal was very tight long range patterns. For shorter range like home defense, a wrap, buffer, or shot cup isn’t really necessary. All depends on what your goals are.

_________________
“A gun is a tool, it’s just like any other tool. It’s only as good or bad as the man using it.” Alan Ladd. “Shane”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:12 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:07 am
Posts: 4979
StealthyisHealthy wrote:
Hello i need some advice or if anyone is willing to share a recipe I would really appreciate it. I need to load up some 9 pellet 00 buck and I have tried the whole swap the buck for shot but I don't like doing things so sketchy and was hoping y'all could help me.

The componets that i have on hand is all i have to work with for the time being.

I have; 2lbs green dot, 1lbs home cast 00 buckshot,
200 BPI 3/8 waxed fiber wads, Once fired win super x hulls, Once fired Federal/Rio hulls, Once fired win universal hulls, And some new Cheddit hulls.
For equipment I have a Lee loadall II, Hand rollcrimper, Lee powder scale, And Lee powder dipper set
The whole “swap the buck for birdshot” by weight isn’t sketchy at all. It’s a long time proven technique.

The Cheddite or Federal hulls will be your best choice and most flexible in getting your load to
fit. Weigh out your buckshot load, pick a charge of Green Green for that hull and payload weight and then use the waxed card wads to build your wad column and adjust the stack height. It’s ok to split the wads to fine tune the fit.

The substitution of card wads in place of plastic is safe and effective.

BTW, I should add that the Winchester Universals roll crimp very well even without trimming off the folds and they make a great throwaway hull for this kind of work. I load and roll crimp hulls only once and do not try to load them again.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:58 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:09 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Southern CA
Cerberus,
Welcome back from your long vacation... missed your wise posts.

...pete


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:35 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:07 am
Posts: 4979
pjmx wrote:
Cerberus,
Welcome back from your long vacation... missed your wise posts.

...pete

Pete, it’s good to be back. Thanks to you and DaveinAZ for rousing me from hibernation


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:09 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
Posts: 1372
Location: Attica, Mi
It's nice to know a good roll crimp can be had without cutting the folds off - I never tried a lot, but didn't have any luck without cutting. Also, I thought buckshot loads used a filler to keep the buckshot in place while it went down the barrel so it wouldn't squeeze into the empty pockets and come out deformed.

_________________
Venue shotgun chairman of the LCSC and the LPSXSA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:13 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:35 am
Posts: 731
Location: Alabama
Turpentine1 wrote:
... Federal does use their flight control wad but their 00 busckshot actually mics at .315 to achieve proper fit. It also weighs 49 grains which in reality replicates single 0 in diameter and weight.


In reality, Federal is within the voluntary SAMMI +.015" standard from the nominal 00B diameter. Using that standard, a .315" pellet could be legitimately labeled as 00B, 0B or #1B; or all three "sizes" at the same time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:50 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:59 pm
Posts: 222
RMc wrote:
Turpentine1 wrote:
... Federal does use their flight control wad but their 00 busckshot actually mics at .315 to achieve proper fit. It also weighs 49 grains which in reality replicates single 0 in diameter and weight.


In reality, Federal is within the voluntary SAMMI +.015" standard from the nominal 00B diameter. Using that standard, a .315" pellet could be legitimately labeled as 00B, 0B or #1B; or all three "sizes" at the same time.


Yep. That’s the spec, but when you look at Remington, Winchester, or hornady 00 buckshot, it will be very close or right on the money at .33” and weigh in around 54 grains. I’m aware of the specs and parameters. The size doesn’t mean as much to me as the loss of weight. But if I want to shoot what I consider to be 00 buckshot, that means I want to shoot buckshot that measures .33 and weigh 54 gains. Which is what Lyman 5th specs show for 00” buckshot. .315 is actually under Lyman’s 0 and higher than 1buck. The 49 grains is 0 weight. That is less size and weight than I desire in a load labeled 00 buck. They may ligitimately call it 00, but it ain’t what I call 00. Therefore, I make the choice and don’t buy or shoot federal buckshot. I’ve seen shotgun barrels that shoot 2’ high at 40 yards that the company said were in spec too, but I’m not going to use that either.

_________________
“A gun is a tool, it’s just like any other tool. It’s only as good or bad as the man using it.” Alan Ladd. “Shane”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:12 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:35 am
Posts: 731
Location: Alabama
Adjusting the actual size of buckshot pellets to fit the load design is not something new:

The 1963 introduction of the Winchester Mark V collar to prevent bore scrub reduced the inside diameter of the hull. So buckshot size was "adjusted" downward as reported by Jack O'Connor in The Shotgun Book 1970 printing, page 303:

00B was reduced from .330 to .323
#1B was reduced from .298 to .289
#4B was reduced from .240 to .233


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:25 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:59 pm
Posts: 222
Again perfectly fine, be as that may, I’m still shooting buckshot that when I cut open an example and measure, it’s very close to .33” and 54 grains. Lyman still puts .33 and 53-54 grains as their listed size, and Remington still puts .33 on the side of their box along with recommended shot sizes for certain game. I view specs as CYA and a built in excuse by industry for passing a lesser quality product. It happens all over the world now in just about every industry. It certainly keeps Walmart supplied. The spec in question is a minimum requirement.
I known Federal adjusts size for fit for a long time. It’s very evident when you cut open a sample. I’ve cut open quite a few in different gauges and sizes. You can tell a difference in penetration at distance. It seems I read somewhere that plated 00s spec is .315”. And that may be so. That’s just another reason that I do not shoot plated buckshot. The majority of folks that dod drive for deer that I have met over the years refuse to shot federal. You can look on their dashboard or console and you find Winchester or Remington. I’ve been dog driving for 42 years, and rarely see a box of it except in 20 gauge. It’s not just me that stays away from it. However, I do use it every now and then in 10ga, when it’s all I can find. And I don’t use 10ga much.

_________________
“A gun is a tool, it’s just like any other tool. It’s only as good or bad as the man using it.” Alan Ladd. “Shane”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:02 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:35 am
Posts: 731
Location: Alabama
Turpentine1[quote) The majority of folks that dog drive for deer that I have met over the years refuse to shot federal. You can look on their dashboard or console and you find Winchester or Remington. I’ve been dog driving for 42 years...[/quote]

Interesting.

I have been "standing to the dogs" for at least as long. And the buckshot ammo I observed in use was inevitably a mishmash of brands and sizes including Federal. Sometimes I observed mixed sizes and brands being loaded in the same shotgun! I often wondered how many of those "dyed in the wool" hunters ever put a pattern to paper! The answer: Obviously not many - then or now!

So getting back to the OP, I would advise seeking out buffered load data with the his 00B pellets stacked 2 pellets per layer inside a shotcup or teflon wrap. The two pellet stack will reduce radial compression and increase pellet flow through the forcing cone and choke. Such a load, with pellets of this size usually, respond well to tighter choke constrictions.

Here is a published source on some simple high performance 8 pellet 00B loads. The number of pellets is less important than a tight consistant pattern. See page 35 in this edition of IMR loading data:

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebi ... sGuide.pdf

Frankly, I see no reason to waste time assembling less than high performance buckshot loads.

Pattern testing buckshot is just as important as sighting in a rifle.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:04 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:59 pm
Posts: 222
Most people here do pattern and know what the gun shoots. Our season is 4.5 months long so dog driving is a lifestyle for some. I’ve patterned many different guns and choke combinations for customers. I sell guns and Chokes. There are even some 50 yard buckshot competitions held around here as part of a turkey shoot. Many folks will get rid of a gun that doesn’t pattern well with what they like to shoot. Here, there are a lot of folks that absolutely refuse to shoot Winchester buckshot as well. The most used is 3” Remington 00. This dates back to when Remington had the 4.5 dram equivalent 3” 00 load. It was a strong load and tough on guns. Remington has reduced the load, a long time ago and performance is pretty much the same as Winchester’s 3” lead 00 now, but most of those folks still shoot Remington. And for good reason, Remington makes a good Buckshot load. So does Winchester, I shoot both, because my gun happens to pattern unbelievably well with just about anything I put in it. I don’t know how things are in your neck of the woods, but stores here will be sold out on Remington and Winchester, and still close to fully stocked on Federal or any other brand. Yes there are a few here and there that shoot it, but for the most part, I can’t give it away, it collects dust on the shelf, so I quit stocking it.

_________________
“A gun is a tool, it’s just like any other tool. It’s only as good or bad as the man using it.” Alan Ladd. “Shane”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:15 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:35 am
Posts: 731
Location: Alabama
Turpentine1

I am glad we agree about the need for pattern testing the specific shotgun/choke/buckshot load combination. And I suspect you would also agree that once a successful combination is established, then further pattern testing to establish a minimum pattern/maximum range expectation, is in order.

One of the interesting things I've noticed in this and other conversations about buckshot is that often a blanket statement is made about a brand of buckshot ammunition without providing specific context. For example, in three inch 00B, Federal currently has three different lines, each quite different in interior layout.

-The "Power Shok" is a 15 pellet non-plated, buffered load with a conventional 3 per layer stack mostly contained in a simple shot cup.

-The "Vital-Shok" version was first introduced in 1984, featuring 15 plated and buffered pellets stacked precisely in a patented "spiral" or offset pattern inside a shot cup for use in tight choke constrictions.

-The "Vital-Shok Flite-Control" version was introduced just after the turn of the century. This 3" variant has a 12 pellet payload in a rear-braking specialized wad known specifically for putting tight pattern and open choke in the same sentence with buckshot.

It stands to reason that such very different loads - even from one manufacturer - will respond to barrel and choke variations quite differently

Indeed, unless there have been running changes that I am not aware of, all current Remington and Winchester 3" 00B rounds, plated or plain, while buffered, do not have a shot cup or wrapper to prevent bore scrub.
Does this mean they are incapable of patterning well? No. That can only be answered by some quality time with your patterning board.

I bring this up to illustrate how saying "My gun likes 00B" simply treats all load variants as a generic commodity, which buckshot is certainly not.

I certainly hope that most, if not all buckshot hunters, would take pattern testing seriously. It is just as important as sighting in your rifle.


Last edited by RMc on Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:40 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 933
This has been a great thread. I've never shot a round of buckshot, likely never will as I hunt 284win rifle. But Ive learned a lot and enjoyed it, thanks! RMc you certainly know your stuff.

Is the intent of all this for deer, or home defense, or what?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 00 Buckshot load help
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:07 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:59 pm
Posts: 222
IYep, Federal makes the three varieties, I remember they made some loads at one time that used roll crimps. They may still but I haven’t seen any for awhile now. Back when Patternmaster 1st came out with their studded choke, Federal gained a little traction because those chokes worked best with loads with wads. Patterns were pretty dismal with buffered loads.
I’m not much of a fan of copper plated buckshot, though I did have a gun that shot Winchester 000 copperplated buckshot and I killed quite a few deer with that gun and load. I just prefer the old standard buffered lead loads these days and they pattern very well in my gun. I’ll try to post a picture to a couple of examples.
We do have a few of the folks around that say simply “my gun shoots 00” or the folks that don’t pattern at all. These folks are usually the ones that either miss a lot or wound a lot of animals. The latter is certainly a bad thing. Like you said, patterning is as essential as sighting in a rifle. I put to much time and money into hunting and chances at a buck or hog are few and far between. So I like to know what my gun is capable of long before I pull the trigger on an animal. There are so many differences between brands that unless you put them on paper, you have no idea what the combination will do. One good thing about being a choke dealer is that I had the opportunity to test many different constrictions out of several different makes of guns. Surprisingly, the best performing constriction I found for long range patterns of buffered lead loads, was improved modified. Now this doesn’t mean that every gun did better with 00 and IM, but the majority of them did. A few of the guns preferred modified or full. What I did notice was that if you worked up through your constrictions, let’s say starting at improved cylinder, that patterns seemed to get tighter and tighter until you reached a certain point and then the patterns would start deteriorating again. The tighter you went after that, the patterns seemed to blow or become erratic.



_________________
“A gun is a tool, it’s just like any other tool. It’s only as good or bad as the man using it.” Alan Ladd. “Shane”


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: bigalt, Bing [Bot], Capri_Man, ChrisLunker, Cmh07a, Colonel26, DblXX, dime bright, doppelflinten, fblainen11, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, Hal4son, John H, Kyler Hamann, Majestic-12 [Bot], mortum, Mystickal, Pettifogger1, pimlico, Sans Peur, shorthairs, ysr_racer


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
© 2017 Carbon Media Group Outdoors    - DMCA Notice