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 Post subject: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Hello all,
I am new to the forum and found a discussion on the Winchester 101, Diamond Grade 4 barrel set that was offered in the mid 80's. The thread was so old that I thought I would start a new one not sure if it would be seen.
I have an offer to purchase a Winchester 101, Diamond Grade 4 barrel set, which I was told is choked for Skeet shooting, with the Winchester hard case. The gun appears to be in, a fairly stated, 90% plus state. The smaller gage barrels don't even appear to have been shot. The 12 ga barrel looks to have only been shot a handful of times. Wood is excellent. The 90% assessment is probably low but I hate to be the guy who buys something and over pays and it really looks to be extremely lightly used and well cared for. . The offered deal is $2,900. I was told it was a take me home price. I have seen them sold for more and in less of a condition.
Questions,,,, Having read through this thread and the thread being almost 14 years old,,,
1. Is this still a desirable gun considering the condition and price?
2. for the price, is it something I could try and hopefully get my money back for if I don't decide to keep skeet shooting?
3. Any other thoughts?
I have read that times have changed on what competition shooters may want to use, but I am a novice and don't really want to be in the sport for more than the $3,ooo'ish price and I love to shoot and I love cool, classic firearms.
Having said all that,,,, what is the general opinion on a purchase like this?
Thank you in advance for any and all assistance!




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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
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Check the POI on all 8 barrels!


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:19 am 
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Have you confirmed with the seller that it is still for sale? Back when I was a dealer, Winchester didn't make a four barrel set, but this may have been before this one came out. When I was selling them, you got a 12 gauge gun and a matching 3 barrel set with its one receiver and forend.

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:39 am 
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If the barrels are 26” in length then the set would not have much appeal these days.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:29 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
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Location: Northern Virginia
rkittine wrote:
Have you confirmed with the seller that it is still for sale? Back when I was a dealer, Winchester didn't make a four barrel set, but this may have been before this one came out. When I was selling them, you got a 12 gauge gun and a matching 3 barrel set with its one receiver and forend.

Bob


I guess I'm having trouble following you here: What's the difference between a 4-barrel set, and a 12 ga gun which has an additional matching 3-barrel set?

Were they not serial number matched or something?


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:30 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
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Location: Northern Virginia
casonet wrote:
If the barrels are 26” in length then the set would not have much appeal these days.


Especially a 26" set, but even a 28" set is very hard to move these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:37 am 
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John Henry wrote:
rkittine wrote:
Have you confirmed with the seller that it is still for sale? Back when I was a dealer, Winchester didn't make a four barrel set, but this may have been before this one came out. When I was selling them, you got a 12 gauge gun and a matching 3 barrel set with its one receiver and forend.

Bob


I guess I'm having trouble following you here: What's the difference between a 4-barrel set, and a 12 ga gun which has an additional matching 3-barrel set?

Were they not serial number matched or something?


12ga receiver with 3 sets of barrels.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:51 am 
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Thank you for the reply's. The gun "set" comes in a nice Winchester Diamond Grade case. I believe that they are 27 1/2"barrels. Gauge sizes are 12,20,28 and .410. Beautiful scroll work. I will try and post some pictures,,,, not having any luck getting pictures added. Ill keep trying!


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:08 am 
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If anyone has a tip on how to add some pictures to post, it would be greatly appreciated. I have had no luck! Ugh!


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:04 am 
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ShowMe wrote:
Check the POI on all 8 barrels!


Trust me on this. Same problem as the Citori 4-barrel sets and the very short-lived 680 (682?) 4-barrel sets.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:27 am 
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Why would the POI be any more of a problem with a set than any other manufacturer’s O/U guns with just a single barrel? Just asking. Incidentally, I have a friend who has been trying to sell his Browning Superposed 4 barrel cased skeet set for over a year at $4000, and no takers because the barrels are 26”

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:03 pm 
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I purchased one, new, back in 1986 or 1987. It was before the "Classic Doubles" days. IIRC, the price was around $2700.00. The 12 and 20 barrels were factory ported. It did not take long to figure out that it was too light for skeet. Those things did not have a good lifespan. In less than 5000 targets, it broke a hammer, then a sear, then another hammer and sear. I was thinking that there was a heat treating problem in Japan. Anyway, I got rid of it.

It was similar to many of the lower quality, highly praised guns of today. It had gorgeous wood and a great "LOOKING" finish, but was no where near "Competition" quality.

BTW: I still have a hammer and sear for the top barrel.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:56 pm 
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In the 70s, the only package deal for a Winchester 101 4 Gauge Skeet set that I knew about and sold in my shop had a 12 gauge Gun - Receiver, Butt Stock, barrel and forend and a separate 3 barrel set - NOT just three barrels, but a 20 gauge receiver, butt stock and forend with 20/28 and 410 barrels. A Three Barrel Set (also offered by Browning in the early Citori Grade I line) and a Full 12 gauge matching 101 skeet gun.

My first post had a type in saying "with its one, rather than "with its own receiver ......."

Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:54 am 
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There is a 4 barrel set (one receiver, 4 barrels) on Trap shooters with 28" barrels that just sold for $4000

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:17 am 
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Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 8:27 am
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Once again,,, Thanks for the advise. Good to know that a set recently sold for 4K. I also clearly hear the negative sides of this conversation that will be used to make a good decision. I always associated Winchester with quality (well at least for my pre-64 lever guns) but if they were not great quality and don't stand up to the test of time I will have to think a bit more on it! It is however a very good looking set.Thanks!


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 Post subject: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:13 am 
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They are Winchesters in name only. The 101 is really a Japanese made Kodensha (Nikko) gun, similar in many ways to a Browning Citori, also a Japanese gun

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:44 pm 
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Casonet, Browning NEVER made any guns. They designed them and after their break with Winchester, they were always made by others. Winchester always bought the design and stuck their name on the Browning inventions.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:36 pm 
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Yes, I’ve always known that. Did I say that Browning manufactured their guns somewhere?

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:58 am 
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casonet wrote:
They are Winchesters in name only. The 101 is really a Japanese made Kodensha (Nikko) gun, similar in many ways to a Browning Citori, also a Japanese gun


Adding to that fact, the "Diamond Grade" was manufactured by Kodensha (Kikko) for a short period, at which point, Miroku picked up the Winchester contract. Miroku also served as the manufacturer for the Citori, Charles Daly and others. Finding the correct parts was quite a chore, even while the Diamond grade was still in production. When my Diamond Grade was breaking parts I had to specify a "Type". There was a choice of Type 1 through Type 4.

You will still see Diamond Grade parts for sale. Be careful as there is a 1 in 4 chance that these parts will fit. My friend purchased his Diamond Grade 4 barrel set less than a year before my purchase. Although the guns "appeared" to be identical, his "innards" were different from mine. He had zero problems with his. Mine had a habit of shattering hammers and sears.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester model 101, Diamond Grade, 4 barrel skeet set
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:32 am 
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Location: somewhere east of the I-95 corridor, until you get to connecticut. but you can bank on vanzant, mo..
appeal is meaningless. how well you can shoot it is all that matters. shoot it. screw what others think of it and go wipe them off the floor with it. shoot it until it falls apart. some may have had issues, but maybe yours wont. you wont know until you start shooting it.
cars, trucks, boats, rv's, phones,....guns.....its all the same. some work some don't. if youre not a competition level shooter that can wear a gun out in 2 seasons....go enjoy it until it dies.
time will tell. banking YOUR GUNs future on someone ELSES GUNs past is absurd. a 4 bbl set for 3 grand? you aint' losing nothing.

i would have owned that set by now if it wasn't for it being a RH gun with RH palm swell and cast off for RH shooter. im a lefty.



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