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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Bird of Doubles and Swing-Through Technique Question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:38 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 216
Location: Missoula, MT
I practiced yesterday and really tried to get a quicker start. I think part of my problem is that I'm not driving off my legs enough. I did manage to break the bird sooner, but not soon enough: maybe 5 feet before the stake.

If I break the bird over the stake or a little before I don't see how I can not use swing through on the second bird. (A lot of good shooters do that.)

I don't know what I can do to break the first bird much earlier, the way Giambrone and Bender recommend. This is all very frustrating.

Randy




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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Bird of Doubles and Swing-Through Technique Question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:55 am 
Shooting Instructor
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Location: Afton, VA
If you break the 1st one 5 ft before the stake, you'll have time to match bird speed with barrel speed on the second bird, even if you initially come from behind.

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Bird of Doubles and Swing-Through Technique Question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:46 am 
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Try a slightly different tact. You're trying to break the target - which means you're not pulling the trigger until the sight picture is correct. I think this is a big reason why people have trouble moving their break point - correct sight picture is something you've trained on for sometimes years. A different break point is a different sight picture.

Pick your break point - where you want the bird to break. When the bird gets there, pull the trigger. Your hits will go down at first - but you will develop the timing. Once you get your timing then you can work on the sight picture to get your breaks back.

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Bird of Doubles and Swing-Through Technique Question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:05 pm 
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randyflycaster wrote:
I practiced yesterday and really tried to get a quicker start. I think part of my problem is that I'm not driving off my legs enough. I did manage to break the bird sooner, but not soon enough: maybe 5 feet before the stake.

If I break the bird over the stake or a little before I don't see how I can not use swing through on the second bird. (A lot of good shooters do that.)

I don't know what I can do to break the first bird much earlier, the way Giambrone and Bender recommend. This is all very frustrating.

Randy


Yes, but that's normal. It's hard to adapt to a new mechanism. You'll get there. You have to be willing to let a lot of birds go unbroken as part of the process. It's easy to get caught in in that "but I have to break it" mode when, in reality, you really don't. Not right now. I've had some very good shooters (state and world champion level shooters) tell me to focus on the process. Shoot that process/plan no matter what. Your job on the station is to simply execute the process - not worry about the target breaking. That will take care of itself. Ascertain your hold point, look point, and break point - know those things when you step up on the pad. Move on the flash and execute the plan. Don't be afraid to define things and work specifically towards them.

I know this sounds a bit like "mumbo jumbo" but I find I ultimately shoot better if I stick to the plan, and it makes it easier to identify my mistakes. I think of it not in terms of where I "can" break the bird, because when I started, I couldn't break the bird any early than you. But I defined a break point/zone, work out my hold point to get me there, and figure out my look point based on that. I'm still working on look point - I screw it up all the time.

Edit: Wow, looks like John and I were on the same wavelength :)

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Bird of Doubles and Swing-Through Technique Question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:23 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
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If you can't change where you are breaking your High2, then shoot your Low2 double as a pure swing-thru, i.e. shoot right at it as you swing thru.


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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Bird of Doubles and Swing-Through Technique Question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:37 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:23 pm
Posts: 182
randyflycaster wrote:
I don't know what I can do to break the first bird much earlier, the way Giambrone and Bender recommend. This is all very frustrating.)

Randy


Randy - from the sound of your comments it seems highly likely that you are not getting a good start on the target. If you get a good start (strong move on the flash), hard focus on the target, and don't have anything wrong with the mechanics of your swing, you can easily break H2 or L6 five or more feet before the stake. This will give you plenty of time to shoot the second target by establishing a sustained lead - even if you're a little slow in acquiring a visual connection with the second target, and need to "catch it" before establishing the lead.

You said your hold point is 1/3 out. Are you sure? Have you measured 21ft from the window, and marked the spot for verification? Next time you practice mark the 1/3 point, and then experiment with adding a foot or two.

Finally, I hate to see advice along the lines of "here's what I do" - but I'm going to violate my principles. I used to have a lot of issues with L6, but after a lot of lead down the barrel I am much more successful - and confident - about this target. One thing that helped me was to move my look point a little closer to the house - maybe 2/3 back from my hold point. At least for me, this helps me get moving a little earlier, ensuring that I'm ahead of the target.

Good luck, and keep working - you'll ultimately figure this out.


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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Bird of Doubles and Swing-Through Technique Question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:53 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 216
Location: Missoula, MT
Folks,

Thanks so much for all your help. I really appreciate all your thoughts. My next step is to mark 15 feet before the center stake and to pull the trigger when my gun reaches the mark, whether I break the bird or not.

Yes, I have measure out 1/3 to the stake.

I didn't realize I can come from behind the bird and still use sustain lead.

Randy


Last edited by randyflycaster on Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Bird of Doubles and Swing-Through Technique Question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:36 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:56 am
Posts: 8439
Location: Maryland
Randy, your last post is interesting. A lot of sustained lead in skeet is about "trusting the shot". You have found that out. Another thing to learn is that starting behind the second bird does not neccesarily mean shooting it swing through. Another method is to "insert" the gun ahead of the bird and shoot it with a brief sustained lead. Third point is that International Skeet has change so much in the past few years that a general statement about their present methods had best come from someone who is presently active in the sport. We oldtimers from International Skeet have no idea how they do what they do today.




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