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 Post subject: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:30 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:33 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Southern California
I have decided to get a pad adjuster installed on my Citori XS Skeet; the reason being that I cannot mount it without severely canting my head out. Probably due to a long neck. My question is which adjuster? I am looking at two from GRACO. The 585PA is adjusted with the pad on by use of an allen wrench inserted through a hole in the pad. It has a single cam that locks it in position. The other requires the removal of the pad to make any adjustment, but it allows for greater adjustment and has two cams; the 580. The 580 per Jill at Graco allows for slighty more adjustment.

As is, I have to mount the gun so high that well over an inch of pad is off and above the top of my shoulder. Perhaps as much as 2 inches.

Any suggestion as to which adjuster to get. I am stuck with my body and would prefer not to shorten my neck.




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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:43 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:59 am
Posts: 394
Location: Indiana
I use whats called Jones thru the pad stock adjuster. These require no cutting of your stock wood and are easy to grind to fit to your stock.https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/s ... 24843.aspx

If you are mechanically inclined, have access to a grinder or belt sander, you can do these yourself. You will defiantantly need to know your length of pull. Kickezze makes pads from 3/4 inch thick to almost 1 inch thick that fit on them perfectly.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:47 am 
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Location: Brillion, WI
I have not seen them all but from what I have read, be sure to consider the adjuster made by Todd Nelson http://www.gunfitter.com.

In addition to what kicker wrote, you will need to know the correct LOP when you can shoot with a naturally erect head and neck posture without mounting the gun so high on your shoulder.

An inch or so of the recoil pad extending above your collarbone is fine if you shoot wearing a vest and it will reduce the distance the pad needs to be lowered, which is good since lowering it will increase barrel rise during recoil somewhat.

And I you need to cut the stock, be sure to check the pitch and correct it if necessary when the stock is shortened.

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Rollin

Author of "Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition," which explains the interrelationships between shooting form, stock dimensions and a shooter's size and shape http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:28 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:33 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Southern California
Hi Rollin & kicker.

As for pads, years ago I had 1/4" taken off the gun and have been running a 3/4" kickeeze but also have a 1/2". That is per my measurements of them. Are they actually a 3/4 and a 1/2?

So how do you know the correct LOP for standing erect without mounting the gun so high on the shoulder without first adding a pad adjuster so as to enable one to check what is needed? Use a try gun unless you are so fortunate as to have access to a similar gun with a pad adjuster to try? The gentleman I am seeing is Bob Day at R&D Custom Barrel Service located near Triple-B Clays in Rosemead; a suburb of Los Angeles.

You my have understood what I wrote, but I currently am mounting my gun 2" above the shoulder, which is more than 2" above the collar bone.

I would likely arrange to see one of the Nelsons at The Country Gentleman if I weren't all the way on the Left Coast outside of Irvine, CA.

A couple of years ago I set my gun up like this when experimenting with pitch. I don't know if that pitch was correct or all the things that may have thrown off. I figured that was an 8 degree pitch.

http://s1150.photobucket.com/user/poppoppa5/media/20160523_113322_zpsradw5yay.jpg.html?sort=3&o=9


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:47 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:45 am
Posts: 213
Location: Missoula, MT
I prefer a pad adjuster with a LOP adjustment. My adjuster that is be set through the hole often became loose. It took me a while to realize that when I was closing my gun case my the toe of the adjuster was being hit. Now I have a mark (nail polish) so I know where I like my pad adjuster set. Before I put the gun away my I loosen the pad.

With my other adjuster (Graco with a recoil reducer) I have to take the pad off. I don't find that such a big deal because the pad doesn't go down or out to the side as much as my other one, and therefore easily fits into a case.

(I'd prefer a pad with a recoil reducer and LOP adjustment that allows me more adjustment than my Graco.)

When I was at a trap shoot a gunsmith showed me the RAD pad with a recoil reducer. He said all the adjustments can be made without taking the pad off. I didn't ask him, however, how far down or out the pad goes.

Randy


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:47 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 2262
Location: Lower Hudson Valley, New York
TheKlawMan wrote:

Any suggestion as to which adjuster to get. I am stuck with my body and would prefer not to shorten my neck.

Good one........ :lol:

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Krieghoff K80 34" Unsingle
Krieghoff K80 32" Sporter
Perazzi MX2000RS 35" Unsingle
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Beretta DT11 30" Skeet
Beretta SP 1 30" Sport
Browning Ultra XS Sport 30"


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:23 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 4615
Location: Northern Virginia
I agree with the The "Nelson Pad Adjuster" from the Country Gentleman, Todd Nelson.

I have it on all my guns. One of my guns came with a Graco pad adjuster, and the way the mechanism worked, with a series of cams inside it, it did not truly offer full motion of the pad in any direction. Plus, it wasn't through-the-pad adjustable, and that truly does matter, because depending on how you have it set to shoot, it might need adjusted back to neutral just to fit in your case. I am lucky in that my Kolar fits in the case in the shooting position. But I have a K-80 that needs set back to neutral to fit in case.

Good Luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:28 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 4615
Location: Northern Virginia
I have mine lowered this much.....and toe out pretty good, too.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:47 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:33 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Southern California
John Henry. Are those washers your pitch adjustment?

Received a suggestion as to choosing between Graco adjuster models. Intructors who allow students to use their guns may need to adjust them frequently and prefer ability to do so without removing the pad. If it is going to be used by one person the other model Graco has a wider adjustment range and better holds its set.

Appreciate all of your thoughts. Meeting up with the smith today.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:19 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 4615
Location: Northern Virginia
TheKlawMan wrote:
John Henry. Are those washers your pitch adjustment?


Yes, they were added for pitch.

I offered this advice on another thread, but depending on where you are, try to send the gun to a guy who does combs and pads all the time, .....while a regular smith can certainly do it, he probably doesn't have much experience with fitting.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:28 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:33 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Southern California
John Henry wrote:
TheKlawMan wrote:
John Henry. Are those washers your pitch adjustment?


Yes, they were added for pitch.

I offered this advice on another thread, but depending on where you are, try to send the gun to a guy who does combs and pads all the time, .....while a regular smith can certainly do it, he probably doesn't have much experience with fitting.


I completely agree. When I had my comb cut I got kind of a hack job. Back then I thought of going to this other guy, who does combs, gracoils, adjustable combs, and such but charges significantly more. Beside price the difference is he does things right.

I went with the Graco model 580 pad plate adjuster.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:57 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:23 pm
Posts: 5431
Location: Brillion, WI
Ahhh… another concave recoil pad. I have never seen one that fit a shooter who mounted the gun in the right place on the shoulder.

KlawMan,

With the gun mounted high enough on your shoulder so your head and neck are where you believe they should be and your cheek on the stock, measure the distance between your nose and your thumb at it's second knuckle.

Hopefully, you have a flat recoil pad on your gun but to check the pitch, mount the gun with the barrel raised to a normal shooting height and bring it back to your shoulder. The pitch is correct for you if the whole pad, top to bottom, makes simultaneous contact with your shoulder.

Advice: When you bring the gun back to your shoulder, have about an inch of the recoil pad extending above your collarbone IF you wear a shooting vest when you shoot. If you don't, your collarbone will get sore from recoil.

If you do not wear a vest, check the pitch the way I described above. Then measure the distance from the top of the recoil pad with the low gun mount up to the top of the pad when you raise your gun mount to allow an erect head and neck posture and you will have found the distance the pad adjuster will need to be lowered when it has been installed on your gun.

The gun's LOP: It is correct for you when, with a naturally erect head and neck posture, your nose and thumb are separated by about an inch [i]IF[/i] your gun mount is anywhere near consistent from one mount to the next. (Practice with an empty gun is about the only way to make it consistent, and I strongly suggest that you practice long enough to make it consistent because it is important.)

If you mount is never likely to be consistent, you should have a nose thumb separation closer to 1.5." That will allow for sloppy gun mounts, which, with recoil, could cause your nose to be mashed by your trigger-head thumb during recoil.

A 1" separation will allow slightly heavier clothing to be worn in winter if you live where heavier clothing in necessary when it gets colder. (A 1.5" nose/thumb separation with heavier winter clothing would cause the stock to be up to 3/4" too long, which doesn't sound like a lot but it is enough to make the gun considerably more difficult to swing accurately and much more difficult to mount consistently.

If you find that the stock is too long, measure how much too long it is and shorten it 1/4 of that distance to get the correct LOP (length). (Yes, it's weird, but it's accurate.)

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Rollin

Author of "Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition," which explains the interrelationships between shooting form, stock dimensions and a shooter's size and shape http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:12 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:33 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Southern California
This is all very helpful. The gun is now in the hands of Mr. Bob Day who is well recommended out here. I wasn't sure as I don't see myself shooting, but he confirmed that I mount the gun with half the stock in the air above my shoulder. Even then, without raising the comb the pupil of my strong side eye is too low. I understand that is because the gun still needs to be higher in order that I might bring it up to my cheek without canting the head.

As for pitch, Mr. Day didn't think it needed adjustment.

The smith selected a pad that, together with increase in LOP resulting from the thickness of the adjuster, will render the original factory LOP.

I don't shoot with a vest but have thought of getting one. After the adjuster is in place I will get one should the LOP be slightly short. Amazingly shooting with so much of the pad above the shoulder never made my collar bone sore. Nor did I ever notice that barrel rise never caused me to lose sight of the second bird shooting doubles. Perhaps it did and I was unaware of a momentary loss of sight. If so perhaps I might expect to see an improvement with doubles.

I do know that I often don't know if I have broken the first of a pair and I sometimes have to ask the squad if it was a loss. Maybe that is due to barrel rise?

Now to wait to get the gun back!


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:57 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:23 pm
Posts: 5431
Location: Brillion, WI
"I do know that I often don't know if I have broken the first of a pair and I sometimes have to ask the squad if it was a loss. Maybe that is due to barrel rise?"

More than likely, your vision correctly transfers to the second target as soon as you fire - rather than remaining on the first target to see if it broke. Keep doing that.

_________________
Rollin

Author of "Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition," which explains the interrelationships between shooting form, stock dimensions and a shooter's size and shape http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:10 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 4615
Location: Northern Virginia
Rollin Oswald wrote:
Ahhh… another concave recoil pad. I have never seen one that fit a shooter who mounted the gun in the right place on the shoulder.


You made this same comment when I posted a pic of it on TS. Wish you were closer, so you could check it in person. I feel like I get a great fit from it. It was put on by Todd Nelson.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:10 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 4615
Location: Northern Virginia
Rollin Oswald wrote:
Ahhh… another concave recoil pad. I have never seen one that fit a shooter who mounted the gun in the right place on the shoulder.


You made this same comment when I posted a pic of it on TS. Wish you were closer, so you could check it in person. I feel like I get a great fit from it. It was put on by Todd Nelson.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:24 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:33 am
Posts: 1114
Location: Southern California
Rollin Oswald wrote:
"I do know that I often don't know if I have broken the first of a pair and I sometimes have to ask the squad if it was a loss. Maybe that is due to barrel rise?"

More than likely, your vision correctly transfers to the second target as soon as you fire - rather than remaining on the first target to see if it broke. Keep doing that.


Good. That is what I had thought. At least I do something right.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:06 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:23 pm
Posts: 5431
Location: Brillion, WI
John Henry wrote:
Rollin Oswald wrote:
Ahhh… another concave recoil pad. I have never seen one that fit a shooter who mounted the gun in the right place on the shoulder.


You made this same comment when I posted a pic of it on TS. Wish you were closer, so you could check it in person. I feel like I get a great fit from it. It was put on by Todd Nelson.


[color=#BF0000]John,

If Todd installed it without a caution or reservation, I stand corrected. In your case for wharever reason, I am wrong regarding your concave recoil pad.

If you would explain how it makes even contact with your shoulder or shoulder pocket ro overcome my ignorance, I would be in your debt. /color]

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Rollin

Author of "Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition," which explains the interrelationships between shooting form, stock dimensions and a shooter's size and shape http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:21 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 4615
Location: Northern Virginia
Rollin Oswald wrote:

John,

If Todd installed it without a caution or reservation, I stand corrected. In your case for wharever reason, I am wrong regarding your concave recoil pad.

If you would explain how it makes even contact with your shoulder or shoulder pocket ro overcome my ignorance, I would be in your debt.


No need to be claiming any ignorance, I truly do wish I was close to you. I've been shooting a curved pad ever since I bought the Kolar, because that is what Todd put on it when I bought it.

I have a pretty stocky build, and I do feel like I get good contact along the entire length of the pad. If I had a readily available straight pad, I'd be willing to try it just to see the difference.

Wish I knew where the original pad got to..........


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing a Pad Adjuster
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:52 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Location: Brillion, WI
John,

Where is the top of the pad relative to your collarbone, below or above and if above, approximately how far?

When you shoot, approximately how much do you rotate your stance, more or less than 45 degrees?

What part of your anatomy fills the concavity on the pad?

Do you mount your gun in your shoulder pocket or do you mount it farther out on your shoulder, on or near your shoulder joint?

[Edit]
KlawMan,

I apologize for hijacking your thread.



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Rollin

Author of "Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition," which explains the interrelationships between shooting form, stock dimensions and a shooter's size and shape http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384


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